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Old 06-28-01   #1
Samichking
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Have you turned your back on God?

There seems to be a general thought going through many of the threads I have read here that the majority of you at one time or another were going to church and even believing in God.

I was curious as to what happened. If and when you did turn your back on God, what was the cause(s)?

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Old 06-28-01   #2
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hmmm i was just raised with complete religious freedom...
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Old 06-28-01   #3
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I have not turned my back on your God as he does not exist ... therefore it would be impossible for me to turn my real living back on a figment of your imagination.... Sam I think most people did a good job of explaining why they did on those original threads that they posted that they had given up on the belief of your God... I think you are floggin' a dead horse here... yet that is your specialty is it not flogging... self-flaggellation is one of those strange things ye and thee do in the name of your God... as well as other strange self tortures all in the name of your god...

My God exists all around me and asks for nothing but that I live.. I exist... And that in existing I respect and tolerate all those around me with the same face that they present to me... your God asks for blind obedience or hell... what a choice that is...
I would much rather eat handfuls of lard than worship such a vain and unproductive God....
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Old 06-28-01   #4
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very wise my friend,... i to do not believe in his god,... why would someone as powerful as his religion says his god is make a place of killing, suffering and pain,... why would his all powerful god create something,... something so hideuos and uncontrollable as the human race and then demand all attention and servatude or else they will be punished,... what would be the point,... it wouldn't be living but instead the point would be slavery,... and what kind of god is that??,... why would one that is supposedly so powerful and wonderful create such a place as this just for his own personal pleasure,... if there is such a god his, then he/she/whatever is one sick and corrupted bastard,...
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Old 06-28-01   #5
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Which god are you talking about? Theres like millions of gods( and goddesses).
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Old 06-28-01   #6
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it's not which god shadowgurl,... but rather what religion,...
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Old 06-28-01   #7
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Painful hasn't entered this conversation yet I see..
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Old 06-28-01   #8
Samichking
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Dyshade, thanks for responding. But no, most have not given their opinion. Fact is, the other 3 fine people who just left their posts are 3 I have not heard from before. At least not to my knowledge.

So, while you assert that I am flogging a dead horse, I assert I am only listening to opinons of those from whom I have not heard.

Also, as I have stated here before on other threads, for one to so arrogantly boast there is no God, you yourself must indeed be God in your mind. For to say without doubt and all clarity as you seem to do be doing "there is no God" you would have to be omnipresent. You would have to be in every sqaure inch of the cosmos during every second of time to say conclusively "there is no God".

At best you could only be an agnostic, for if we are to be intellectually honest, there can only be atheist by definition. Not by experience. You must be honest and say at the minimum that there might be the possibility that there is a God. For again, you cannot be everywhere at all times to have seen the cosmos to say as fact, "there is no God".

Of course you can continue your totally subjective line of reasoning of matter- of- factly stating there is no God. I expect that from you to be honest. You might say you are beating a dead horse with that line of thought. (nudge) But I am interested in other's opinions also.



Poet, it is nice to meet you and thanks for your response.

Quote:
,... why would someone as powerful as his religion says his god is make a place of killing, suffering and pain,... why would his all powerful god create something,... something so hideuos and uncontrollable as the human race and then demand all attention and servatude or else they will be punished,... what would be the point,
Surely it is difficult for us to understand why God would allow some things to happen. But simply because we find it difficult to imagine what reasons God could have for permitting them, does not mean that no such reasons exist. It is entirely possible that such reasons are not only beyond our present knowledge, but also beyond our present ability to understand. A child does not always understand the reasons that lie behind all that his father allows or does not allow him to do. It would be unrealistic for us to expect to understand all of God's reasons for allowing all that He does.

Beyond this, however, we can suggest possible reasons for God allowing some of the horrendous evils which do exist in our world. Perhaps there are people who would never sense their utter dependence on God apart from experiencing the intense pain that they do in life (Ps. 119:71). Perhaps there are purposes that God intends to accomplish among his angelic or demonic creatures which require his human creatures to experience some of the things that we do (Job 1-2). It may be that the suffering we experience in this life is somehow preparatory to our existence in the life to come (2 Cor. 4:16-18). Even apart from the revelation of Scripture, these are all possible reasons behind God's permission of evil. And at any rate, most people agree that there is much more good in the world than evil--at least enough good to make life well worth the living.

I don't know how you will take to that line of thought Poet, but that is basically the way I freely choose to look at evil and suffering. God did not create evil. Man chose by his free will to bring it into his world.

If you have children you want to give them the very best, but when they choose to disobey, you either choose some form of discipline or let them go on their way without correction and they continue to get progressivley worse. As a loving parent, you choose what action is best to help bring that child in line. The child doesn't always understand why you allow or disallow certain priveledges or why sometimes you correct and discipline him. It doesn't mean you don't love the child.

Of course the subject will continue with varying opinions and disagreements. But I am glad you took the time to respond.
Again, nice to meet you. And nice to meet you too hollowmoon and ShadowGurl.

Sincerely,
Samichking

PS.
SadowGurl, I am talking about the God of the Bible. I was referring to several posts where people had mentioned that they were brought up in a Christian home or grew up going to church but no longer do.
Thanks.

Last edited by Samichking; 06-28-01 at 11:16.
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Old 06-28-01   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoddessOfDeath
Painful hasn't entered this conversation yet I see..
Here I am, GoD...i just didn't want to enter, because i think that Samichking already knows why i've turned away from God...and i'm tired of explaining it to everyone...i have to explain it at least once a day...so, not now

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Old 06-28-01   #10
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thanks for replying,... interesting to know what you think,... i am always open to listen to opinions,... no matter what, although i am sometimes rather strong in some of my beliefs,... i still like to hear the opinion of others,... well not much more to say than that, plus i'm only half awake,... so i'll probably have to re-read your reply later before i go and respond directly to what you said, because i like to openly debate these kinds of things,... well until then later,...
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Old 06-28-01   #11
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Yes, I know there is no God... not the God that you believe in at least... for if there was such a being as this God that you seem to believe exists...(And the road here goes two ways.. for you to insist that God does indeed exist you would have to present the same argument about omnipresence to yourself) I would be damned to hell... I am sorry but I do not want to believe that I will be damned to hell for merely inferring that he does not exist... which according to your beliefs I would be...
As for you saying that God did not create evil... that is absurd and irrational... especially when you state that God created us in his own image... therefore if we created evil it came from the source of our creation.... God... the creator must indeed take responsibility for the creations of his creations... common sense and logic argue this... just as a parent must take responsibility for thier childs actions... I have said before and I will say again.. I AM NOT AGNOSTIC!!!!!!!!!! Get it... got it... ok...
And you Sam must also look at the flip side of the coin and realize the possibility that there is no God... I need not be in every square inch of the universe to say that there is no God.. I live by experience and thrive from said experiences... I also draw my conclusions from those experiences... My life is MINE... I will not subjigate myself to a petty diety which asks for what is akin to mental and physical slavery..... I rather like my freedom of thought and the fact that I can be of open mind when confronting another about thier beliefs...
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Old 06-28-01   #12
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Why did I turn away from God? First off I was Roman Catholic, that should explain it all, however it's not him I turned from. It's more christianity that I turned from. They took a beautiful beign and twisted him and his words into what they felt would help them control the masses. To justify their physical and mental insecurities and condemn those with the passion to revel in their self. Burned, maimed and tortured any who would not follow male bigots and their beaten down, judgemental women. It is not God that does this, it's his followers who run around doing evil acts and justifying it in his name. That is what I turned from: the hypocricies, being Catholic, I could go and murder a whole heap of people, confess my sins, or say they were heathens that needed saving, and all is forgiven? That is not right.
In worshiping the Great Mother I have found peace, and earthiness. Any action I take against another living being directly affects myself, so therefore Ilive my life and with others in a way that will bring peace, love, and prosperity. His followers create the ten commandments, make women lesser people. Following the Goddess, women are acknowledged for their inherent powers. Seductive, loving, giving, creators. They are honored for what christians condemn as impure and evil. Men are equal partners and consorts, complimenting rather than dominating, honoring rather than dominating, they are lovers, not controllers.
Once again it is not God I have turned away from, it's his followers, and twisted truths.
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Old 07-05-01   #13
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I didn't turn my back on God either, I've just adapted my own interpertation of what God is, and my own set of ethics and morals. I was also raised Roman Catholic.. The first thing that made me question that religion was that I was attending bible school for 5 years and any questions I had earned me a visit to confession and 20 hail marys and a full go at the rosary. I was also appaled at the attitude twards people we were trying to "save", a mixture of distaste and belittlement disguised as "caring". Couple that with the fact my parents dropped me off at church every sunday for mass, I guess to be the family representative. I never fully belived in the religion, so I thought going through with confirmation was just lying to myself, my family, and most importaintly to God. There was breif period where I doubted there even was A god, but have since changed my mind due to experiences since then (Personal things I don't care to share here on this board). There are (at leased for me) signs everywhere. Mostly I think it is wrong to force God or religion onto anyone. I belive that Religion, and spirituality are a personal thing, as we all can worship whatever we choose together, we CHOOSE alone (I have shared this belife more than once, I know.) I think we should live by example, not words alone.
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Old 07-16-01   #14
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I have questions surrounding the whole does God exist, but I do believe that there is a higher power in this world. I'm unsure if its really god or something else. I have a hard time saying that Christianity is the only true religion. I was taught that and I don't believe it. There are what a billion different religions and being christian makes you right. I don't see how the hell that's possible. I wonder sometimes if we aren't all just bying into a nice fanatsy because if we think there is a God then heaven has to exist. Everyone I know who is Christian (so they say) is concerned about where they will go after death. I myself do not believe in heaven or hell because I believe we either are reborn or we move to another plain that resembles this world. I could be wrong and you can say that believing that is turning your back on God then so be it. Who are you to tell me what it means to turn your back on God. As I recall, the bible takes a firm stance on not judging others yet people do it thru out the bible. Contradiction, ohh yeah...But what is new about that...No one can tell me I'm wrong for my beliefs and honestly say they are christian...Unless you too are like the bible...Only using what works for you when you need it to and then twisting the words later to use them for something else...Just my thoughts.
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Old 07-16-01   #15
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:: wow, christians are more ignorant and stubborn than i thought..why you people (not all of you) allow yourselves to be controlled by a fuck'n science-fiction book is beyond me. My aunt lives her life totally by christianity, and it's sad to see how much of a slave she is. To see how much she is chained downed to all that bullshit. I see how you label us by what you "think" we are if we don't believe even "partially" in your god. I see how your points only lead back to your same answer, that we are wrong, and you are right. If your god is so high and mighty and so righteous, why would it even give us the reason to comprehend the fact that there might not even be a god or it not exist at all?? That's one stupid fuck'n god you have there. Religion is for people scared of going to hell. And life is too damn short to worry about living it to a fuck'n standard set by a made up figure, my standards are good enough. ::

:: one more thing...
Quote:
A child does not always understand the reasons that lie behind all that his father allows or does not allow him to do. It would be unrealistic for us to expect to understand all of God's reasons for allowing all that He does.
The child finds out about their fathers reasons sooner or later, so it is not unrealistic for us to understand your God's reasons. ::
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Old 07-16-01   #16
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If you belive in something enough, in a way it does sort of make it reality, if not only in your own mind.
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Old 07-17-01   #17
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"I've turned my back to the east, from whence comforts have increased, for light doth seize my brain with frantic pain" -Blake

I turned my back on your god because his religion is boredom... He offers stagnation and monotony (some would say comfort, but it is a false comfort because it achieves nothing in its speciousness ) in exchange for slavery, as opposed to the freedom to explore our own avenues. To quote Juan Matus, "I know that I am alone in a predatory universe, I have not only learned to say, 'so be it' but I have come to embrace this aloneness because it is the truest freedom."
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Old 07-17-01   #18
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Quote:
I turned my back on your god because his religion is boredom... He offers stagnation and monotony (some would say comfort, but it is a false comfort because it achieves nothing in its speciousness ) in exchange for slavery, as opposed to the freedom to explore our own avenues. To quote Juan Matus, "I know that I am alone in a predatory universe, I have not only learned to say, 'so be it' but I have come to embrace this aloneness because it is the truest freedom."
He offers stagnation and monotony? It is a false comfort?Hardly. What He offers is total freedom to experience life as He intended. He offers love, peace, freedom, guidance, stability, TRUE comfort, strength, help, forgiveness....to name just a few.

Never once since I surrendered my life to Him when I was 19 have I EVER felt anything remotely close to how you describe my Lord. I mean that sincerely.

You turned your back on my God because "his religion is boredom"? I don't know what you experienced in your walk with Him before you turned your back, but I am willing to listen.

Sincerely,
Samicking

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Old 07-17-01   #19
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It never ceases to amaze me at the places I will find Xian Evangelists. Keep up the hard work Mr. Samichking, and you just might convert some of the more gullible people on this forum. Don’t get me wrong bro, I have nothing against your attempted revision of people’s beliefs (as long as it isn’t in the traditional monotheistic practice of genocide in the name of god if conversion is refused)… It JuSt GeTs A LiTtLe AnNoYiNg AfTeR A WhiLe To HeAr ThE SaMe DeO-BaBbLe OvEr AnD OvEr aNd OvEr AgAiN.
insincerely,
Dayobscured
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Old 07-17-01   #20
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My God`s bigger than your God:p

Quote:
He offers love, peace, freedom, guidance, stability, TRUE comfort, strength, help, forgiveness
So do my friends.

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:: wow, christians are more ignorant and stubborn than i thought..why you people (not all of you) allow yourselves to be controlled by a fuck'n science-fiction book is beyond me.
Scientologists have sci-fi books too. I think the Bible falls more under fantasy than sci-fi though.
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