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Old 10-01-14   #1
thefr0g
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Yo DarkMessiah! Riddle me this.

Genuine question time. I see you posting and commenting on a lot of feminist related stuff. I've also seen many feminists get angry when talking about rape culture, particularly at the common response many men have of "not all men are rapists" or "not all men are misogynists" etc.

However, you've also been posting a lot of Islam related stuff recently, in which everyone is making the reverse claim, not all muslims are extremists. I agree, by the way, with both of these sentiments. I just don't understand why the same rules don't apply. Perhaps you can enlighten me as you seem to be the guru of PC culture.
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Old 10-01-14   #2
Dark Messiah
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It's funny you mention it, there is currently a small but heated campaign with a few people talking about what a rabid racist I am. Unfortunately the SJ milieu is fundamentally kind of cannibalistic.

Well, that's a digression.

I obviously can't speak for 100% of cases, but in the general sense the "joke" of the "not all men" gag is similar to the joke of the "#misandry" or "die cis scum die" gags, it's meant to highlight the ineffectiveness and forced outrage of these forms of "oppression." Like, it's fine to agree with both "not all men" and "not all Muslims" literally- you should feel that way! The point isn't to popularize new and trendier forms of bigotry. But the joke is that "not all men" is completely unnecessary.

"Men" is already a privileged category, and part of that privilege is fundamental humanization, just like the counterpart, oppression, inevitably involves de-humanization. No one starts off with more assumed humanity than straight white dudes. Fuck, look at the news- straight white dudes can grab a gun and literally murder dozens of children, and the news stories will be, "what made this nice young boy go mad?" "Who's to blame for pushing him over the brink?" "Are videogames corrupting these innocent youths?" etc., etc., etc..

Now, "privilege," to be clear, doesn't necessarily mean a thing people shouldn't have. We should make an effort to understand even people that do awful things as human beings, and try to understand why they go this route (without going for lame copouts like blaming media or making up mental illness after the fact.)

But the point is, as a category, "men" are already seen as fundamentally more human, and therefore more nuanced, than women, and then Muslims, because those are marginalized groups. Men particularly, of all privileged groups, since they make up by far the lion's share of roles in narrative fiction. Men's roles are so visually dominant that we're trained to read a crowd that's 6 men to 1 women as being realistically diverse. Men are good guys, bad guys, neutral guys, annoying guys, charming guys, etc., etc.. There was never any reasonable danger that many women or anyone were going to take "not all men" the same way that women can be marginalized and generalized as a group, not in our society, and the treatment of it as such is confused and defensive script-flipping.

I should say by the way that this doesn't mean, of course, that men can't be marginalized and stereotyped and harmed. Even straight white cisdudes can of course suffer this harm. But notice the extreme disparity over whether the distinction is made about a position of privilege or one of oppression. How can you be more than lightly ribbed for being a "whitey," for being tall, for being a rich-boy, for being buff? Conversely, where a white cishet dude encounters shit is for either falling into other categories- being poor, let's say, or fat, or short, etc..- or for not matching the standards enough. "Fag" isn't just a term for gay/bi men, it's a dangerous and menacing term used to dehumanize any guy not performing as masculine enough, sexually active enough. "White trash" is sometimes seen as a racial slur, and it is- but not in the way people might think. "White trash" is a white supremacist slur- it's saying, look at you, you're part of the superior race but not acting in the way we deem that to mean. Black people slurs just mean, "You're black." White people slurs like white trash, redneck etc., mean, "You're white, but not acting like it."

This is a neglected area in SJ circles generally, how privilege is actually pretty tiered and can be taken away or cut back for failing to adequately perform, but I think I covered the question so I'll leave it there.
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Old 10-02-14   #3
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You use a lot of acronyms I'm not familiar with, but I think I figured them out in context.

So, it's a matter of power. I get that. Does it change geographically? Because Islam is the dominant religion in the world, plus it's a choice to be a Muslim. Do these rules only apply in the societies where Muslims are a minority? If someone lived in Malaysia and was arguing against radical Islam, would the "not all Muslims" response suddenly not hold water in your opinion?
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Old 10-02-14   #4
Dark Messiah
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Sure, of course this presumes Western (really American) cultural norms. I don't know a ton about Malaysian culture, but it's completely possible to, for instance, live in a Muslim-dominated society where Muslims have privilege and non-Muslims are oppressed, and if you point out bad behavior that's typically associated with Muslims exercising that privilege the response of "but not all Muslims" would in that context function about the same.
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