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Old 12-02-10   #81
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Where is the evidence that evolution is true?
ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL!!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Old 12-02-10   #82
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Sorry, I had to post that twice... What a fucking douche!
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Old 12-02-10   #83
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Originally Posted by Pahu View Post
Well, you sure did a good job of bashing the Bible. The problem is that your assertions and accusations are false.
Hahaha! Y eah, lets just focus on the tiny little offhanded comments I have made and just ignore the rest of what i have said.

Typical of a fucking god botherer.

LLet me tell you something you fucking arsehat. Basing your life on a fucking joke to the science world is retarded. You can't call the twat a scientist because he reads science journals and then picks and picks at tiny little parts of it.

What a fucking joke. Walt Brown is a useless cocksucker. He did NO legwork to back up his theories and all he did was piss and moan and pick at TINY little parts of other scientists... Kind of a reflection of what you do, pick at TINY little parts of peoples posts.

Grow a fucking pair you shitbird.
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Old 12-02-10   #84
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Distinct Types


If evolution happened, one would expect to see gradual transitions among many living things. For example, variations of dogs might blend in with variations of cats. In fact, some animals, such as the duckbilled platypus, have organs totally unrelated to their alleged evolutionary ancestors. The platypus has fur, is warm-blooded, and suckles its young as do mammals. It lays leathery eggs, has a single ventral opening (for elimination, mating, and birth), and has claws and a shoulder girdle as most reptiles do. The platypus can detect electrical currents (AC and DC) as some fish can, and has a bill somewhat like that of a duck—a bird. It has webbed forefeet like those of an otter and a flat tail like that of a beaver. The male platypus can inject poisonous venom like a pit viper. The duckbilled platypus is found only in Tasmania and eastern Australia. European scientists who first studied platypus specimens thought that a clever taxidermist had stitched together parts of different animals—a logical conclusion if one believed that each animal must be very similar to other animals. In fact, the platypus is perfectly designed for its environment. Such “patchwork” animals and plants, called mosaics, have no logical place on the so-called “evolutionary tree.”

There is no direct evidence that any major group of animals or plants arose from any other major group (a). Species are observed only going out of existence (extinctions), never coming into existence (b).

a. “And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field.” Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85–1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16. Kenyon has repudiated his earlier book advocating evolution.

“Thus so far as concerns the major groups of animals, the creationists seem to have the better of the argument. There is not the slightest evidence that any one of the major groups arose from any other. Each is a special animal complex related, more or less closely, to all the rest, and appearing, therefore, as a special and distinct creation.” Austin H. Clark, “Animal Evolution,” Quarterly Review of Biology, Vol. 3, No. 4, December 1928, p. 539.

“When we descend to details, we cannot prove that a single species has changed; nor can we prove that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the theory [of evolution].” Charles Darwin, The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. 1, p. 210.

“The fact that all the individual species must be stationed at the extreme periphery of such logic [evolutionary] trees merely emphasized the fact that the order of nature betrays no hint of natural evolutionary sequential arrangements, revealing species to be related as sisters or cousins but never as ancestors and descendants as is required by evolution.” Denton, p. 132.

b. “...no human has ever seen a new species form in nature.” Steven M. Stanley, The New Evolutionary Timetable (New York: Basic Books, Inc., 1981), p. 73.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp1008897]
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Old 12-02-10   #85
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If evolution happened, one would expect to see gradual transitions among many living things. For example, variations of dogs might blend in with variations of cats.
This is the exact opposite of what evolution predicts. Evolution predicts that genetic drift increases the difficulty of cross-breeding until it becomes impossible, which is in fact what we observe in nature. Being totally different animals, felines and canines are naturally unable to breed with each other.

You would know all this if you were at all competent to speak in this field, or if you had actually read any posts in this thread.
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Old 12-03-10   #86
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I don't get how someone can just quote text from a website and then claim that he knows all there is to know regarding the non-existence of evolution...

Fucking retard.
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Old 12-04-10   #87
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Thats why its no smarter than to believe in the current batch than it is to believe in the older versions.
i'll agree i don't always make the most smart choices in my life; but no harm, no foul.
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Old 12-06-10   #88
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Altruism 1


Humans and many animals will endanger or even sacrifice their lives to save another—sometimes the life of another species (a). Natural selection, which evolutionists say selects individual characteristics, should rapidly eliminate altruistic (self-sacrificing) “individuals.” How could such risky, costly behavior ever be inherited? Its possession tends to prevent the altruistic “individual” from passing on its genes for altruism (b)?

a. “...the existence of altruism between different species—which is not uncommon—remains an obstinate enigma.” Taylor, p. 225.

Some inherited behavior is lethal to the animal but beneficial to unrelated species. For example, dolphins sometimes protect humans from deadly sharks. Many animals (goats, lambs, rabbits, horses, frogs, toads) scream when a predator discovers them. This increases their exposure but warns other species.

b. From an evolutionist’s point of view, a very costly form of altruism occurs when an animal forgoes reproduction while caring for another individual’s young. This occurs in some human societies where a man has multiple wives who share in raising the children of one wife. More well known examples include celibate individuals (such as nuns and many missionaries) who devote themselves to helping others. Such traits should never have evolved, or if they accidentally arose, they should quickly die out.

Adoption is another example:

“From a Darwinian standpoint, going childless by choice is hard enough to explain, but adoption, as the arch-Darwinist Richard Dawkins notes, is a double whammy. Not only do you reduce, or at least fail to increase, your own reproductive success, but you improve someone else’s. Since the birth parent is your rival in the great genetic steeplechase, a gene that encourages adoption should be knocked out of the running in fairly short order.” Cleo Sullivan, “The Adoption Paradox,” Discover, January 2001, p. 80.

Adoption is known even among mice, rats, skunks, llamas, deer, caribou, kangaroos, wallabies, seals, sea lions, dogs, pigs, goats, sheep, bears, and many primates. Altruism is also shown by some people who have pets—a form of adoption—especially individuals who have pets in lieu of having children.

Humans, vertebrates, and invertebrates frequently help raise the unrelated young of others:


“...it is not clear that the degree of relatedness is consistently higher in cooperative breeders than in other species that live in stable groups but do not breed cooperatively. In many societies of vertebrates as well as invertebrates, differences in contributions to rearing young do not appear to vary with the relatedness of helpers, and several studies of cooperative birds and mammals have shown that helpers can be unrelated to the young they are raising and that the unrelated helpers invest as heavily as close relatives.” Tim Clutton-Brock, “Breeding Together: Kin Selection and Mutualism in Cooperative Vertebrates,” Science, Vol. 296, 5 April 2002, p. 69.

Six different studies were cited in support of the conclusions above.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...ciences14.html
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Old 12-06-10   #89
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One might as well take the example of the honeybee for "altruism". Why did evolution lead the bee to a stinger which costs its own life? Inefficiency, one supposes. But why did the trait survive? How could a self-destructive trait be passed on?

Because several bees inherited the trait, and those that used it passed it on. Those that were willing to sacrifice for the good of the group could survive because they could create more and more that were willing to sacrifice. Likewise to adoption; if adoption increases the survival rate of the group, that's all that's needed.

Evolution doesn't place paramount importance on the individual, but on the genetic code the individual carries.
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Old 12-06-10   #90
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Altruism 2



If evolution were correct, selfish behavior should have completely eliminated unselfish behavior (c). Furthermore, cheating and aggression should have “weeded out” cooperation. Altruism contradicts evolution (d).

c. “Ultimately, moral guidelines determine an essential part of economic life. How could such forms of social behavior evolve? This is a central question for Darwinian theory. The prevalence of altruistic acts—providing benefits to a recipient at a cost to the donor—can seem hard to reconcile with the idea of the selfish gene, the notion that evolution at its base acts solely to promote genes that are most adept at engineering their own proliferation. Benefits and costs are measured in terms of the ultimate biological currency—reproductive success. Genes that reduce this success are unlikely to spread in a population.” Karl Sigmund et al., “The Economics of Fair Play,” Scientific American, Vol. 286, January 2002, p. 87.

d. Some evolutionists propose the following explanation for this long-standing and widely recognized problem for evolution: “Altruistic behavior may prevent the altruistic individual from passing on his or her genes, but it benefits the individual’s clan that carries a few of those genes.” This
hypothesis has five problems—the last two are fatal.

Observations do not support it. [See Clutton-Brock, pp. 69–72.]

“...altruistic behavior toward relatives may at some later time lead to increased competition between relatives, reducing or even completely removing the net selective advantage of altruism.” Stuart A. West et al., “Cooperation and Competition between Relatives,” Science, Vol. 296, 5 April 2002, p. 73.

If individual X’s altruistic trait was inherited, that trait should be carried recessively in only half the individual’s brothers and sisters, one-eighth of the first cousins, etc. The key question then is: Does this “fractional altruism” benefit these relatives enough that they sire enough children with the altruistic trait? On average, one or more in the next generation must have the trait, and no generation can ever lose the trait. Otherwise, the trait will become extinct.

From an evolutionist’s perspective, all altruistic traits originated as a mutation. The brothers, sisters, or cousins of the first person to have the mutation would not have the trait. Even if many relatives benefited from the altruism, the trait would not survive the first generation.

The hypothesis fails to explain altruism between different species. Without discussing examples that require a knowledge of the life patterns of such species, consider the simple example above of humans who forgo having children in order to care for animals.

Edward O. Wilson, an early proponent of this evolutionary explanation for altruism, now recognizes its failings:

“I found myself moving away from the position I’d taken 30 years ago, which has become the standard theory. What I’ve done is to say that maybe collateral kin selection is not so important. These ants and termites in the early stages of evolution—they can’t recognize kin like that. There’s very little evidence that they’re determining who’s a brother, a sister, a cousin, and so on. They are not acting to favor collateral kin.” Edward O. Wilson, “The Discover Interview,” Discover, June 2006, p. 61.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp2695170]
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Old 12-06-10   #91
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Altruism 2



If evolution were correct, selfish behavior should have completely eliminated unselfish behavior (c). Furthermore, cheating and aggression should have “weeded out” cooperation. Altruism contradicts evolution (d).

c. “Ultimately, moral guidelines determine an essential part of economic life. How could such forms of social behavior evolve? This is a central question for Darwinian theory. The prevalence of altruistic acts—providing benefits to a recipient at a cost to the donor—can seem hard to reconcile with the idea of the selfish gene, the notion that evolution at its base acts solely to promote genes that are most adept at engineering their own proliferation. Benefits and costs are measured in terms of the ultimate biological currency—reproductive success. Genes that reduce this success are unlikely to spread in a population.” Karl Sigmund et al., “The Economics of Fair Play,” Scientific American, Vol. 286, January 2002, p. 87.

d. Some evolutionists propose the following explanation for this long-standing and widely recognized problem for evolution: “Altruistic behavior may prevent the altruistic individual from passing on his or her genes, but it benefits the individual’s clan that carries a few of those genes.” This
hypothesis has five problems—the last two are fatal.

Observations do not support it. [See Clutton-Brock, pp. 69–72.]

“...altruistic behavior toward relatives may at some later time lead to increased competition between relatives, reducing or even completely removing the net selective advantage of altruism.” Stuart A. West et al., “Cooperation and Competition between Relatives,” Science, Vol. 296, 5 April 2002, p. 73.

If individual X’s altruistic trait was inherited, that trait should be carried recessively in only half the individual’s brothers and sisters, one-eighth of the first cousins, etc. The key question then is: Does this “fractional altruism” benefit these relatives enough that they sire enough children with the altruistic trait? On average, one or more in the next generation must have the trait, and no generation can ever lose the trait. Otherwise, the trait will become extinct.

From an evolutionist’s perspective, all altruistic traits originated as a mutation. The brothers, sisters, or cousins of the first person to have the mutation would not have the trait. Even if many relatives benefited from the altruism, the trait would not survive the first generation.

The hypothesis fails to explain altruism between different species. Without discussing examples that require a knowledge of the life patterns of such species, consider the simple example above of humans who forgo having children in order to care for animals.

Edward O. Wilson, an early proponent of this evolutionary explanation for altruism, now recognizes its failings:

“I found myself moving away from the position I’d taken 30 years ago, which has become the standard theory. What I’ve done is to say that maybe collateral kin selection is not so important. These ants and termites in the early stages of evolution—they can’t recognize kin like that. There’s very little evidence that they’re determining who’s a brother, a sister, a cousin, and so on. They are not acting to favor collateral kin.” Edward O. Wilson, “The Discover Interview,” Discover, June 2006, p. 61.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp2695170]

your ideal seems to dismiss the variety of human emotion, thought, nature, nurture and all the other aspects that make humans, human and influences our nature.

by ideal creationist design we'd have never had the problems that we do, God would have made us perfect, we see how well that worked for adam and eve...

where'd the cave drawings in france come from, did God originally design us to follow a well endowed manimal?

that may work for girls...
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Old 12-07-10   #92
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It's not his ideal though, it's the website that he keeps copying and pasting from ideal.
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Old 12-08-10   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
It's not his ideal though, it's the website that he keeps copying and pasting from ideal.
original thought is a challenge for some.

personally i like the idea of huge glaciers crashing through mountains leaving huge boulders for nice yard decorations thousands of years later, at least that's how our valley was made; that'd have been awesome to experience!

so, we're essentially not even arguing with him, but with another guy who probably has no clue we are?

how fun!
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Old 12-08-10   #94
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by ideal creationist design we'd have never had the problems that we do, God would have made us perfect, we see how well that worked for adam and eve...
I believe God created us in His image, which included mind, spirit and will. Some of us decided our way was better than His. The story of the Garden of Eden is symbolic or our rebellion. Instead of annihilating us on the spot, God confined us to earth and gave us a few thousand years to prove to ourselves and the rest of creation how much better our way is. History is a record of that experiment.

Quote:
where'd the cave drawings in france come from
Probably cave dwellers.

Quote:
did God originally design us to follow a well endowed manimal?
What is a well endowed manimal?
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Old 12-08-10   #95
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Eighteen Factors Disproving Evolution

Evolution flunks the science test

Irreducible complexity——Biochemists and microbiologists have discovered that the various components of every living creature in the world are so complicated and interrelated, that it could not function without every one of them. There is no way that some of the parts could have been added later.

Instantaneous complexity——Each entire living creature had to be totally assembled instantly, in order for it to begin living. If this was not done, parts would decay before other parts were made. All aspects had to be there together, all at once.

Mathematically impossible——Mathematicians have found that the likelihood of DNA, enzymes, amino acids, and proteins being randomly assembled by the chance methods offered by evolutionary theory is impossible.

Intelligently designed——Everything in creation—from the largest galaxy to the smallest atom—reveals the fact that it was planned, designed, and constructed by an Intelligent Being of the highest intellect and capabilities.

Complicated interrelated functions of separate systems——All of the various structures and organs in every living thing are marvelously interrelated. In order to maintain its existence, each part depends on many others.

Extremely involved production sequence——The various processes by which things are made in living organisms are complicated in the extreme. Very lengthy production sequences are generally required. Each step in the procedure must follow other correctly taken steps.

Coded instructions which are referred to and obeyed——Not only are coded instructions provided for everything done in the cell, but proteins and enzymes read and obey these instructions—as though they had the brains to do this!

Ideal location of structures——Every component on or within each organism is consistently located in the best place, in relation to other components, space limitations, and maximum efficiency in operation. Only careful planning could do this.

Narrowed limits everywhere——Wherever we turn in the natural world (here on earth and in the sky above us) we find that, what is called, the "anthropic principle" is involved. An extremely narrow range of conditions exists where life can exist, stars can form, and planets can revolve and orbit around the sun. This narrowed range is found repeatedly by researchers, and is too compressed to have been caused by accidents or coincidence.

Functional objects which provide an attractive, even beautiful appearance——Living creatures which are commonly seen are generally quite attractive in appearance. The production of a beautiful form requires intelligent planning and execution. In addition, attractive coloration is provided. Consider the color and shaping of the cardinal, the robin, and many animals and trees. These are elements and attributes which are not necessary for survival, yet which provide additional comfort and beauty. Only intelligence can produce beautiful things.

Excessive information content and capacity in life forms——Such a capacity, far beyond the bare minimum needed for survival, is repeatedly found. The brain power of mankind is remarkable. The lower forms of life also show an abundance of capacity beyond the amount needed for mere survival.

The characteristic of life itself——Within every living organism is a mysterious something which cannot be initiated by any known natural or human-induced device or method. Not even a superior created intelligence could produce this. Only God could implant life. In life, we are confronted with a continual miracle.

The total impossibility of any other means to produce and maintain all these functions and organisms——All the functions and structures in multiplied trillions of organisms must continually be cared for by an Intelligence out of and beyond ourselves. We are told, "In Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28).

The existence and operation of basic, and other, natural laws governing everything——Even the laws of nature had to be devised and set in place. They did not spring into being automatically.

The existence, structure, and unvarying function of basic elements of matter——Gaze within the atom. Why do the various particles keep whirling about one another? There are puzzles here which far exceed our understanding of basic matter and electrical forces. The atomic structure, movements, and functions of the elements are amazing.

All of nature is simply too astounding——We are too quick to take everything for granted. It is impossible for everything that exists—to exist—in its present useful form and function, much less in any form or function; yet it does.

The inability of the opposing view to provide even one solid scientific evidence in support of its theory——This is a very revealing fact. A "scientific theory" is not scientific, when it lacks the underlying scientific evidence proving it to be worthwhile. Oh yes, evolution includes theories built on theories. But the basic theory, they are all piled on top of, is totally lacking in scientific evidence.

While Creationists are able to present a multitude of scientific evidences (such as are found in this present book), evolutionists can only reply with ridicule and efforts to stifle discussion—--They dare not present valid scientific data to support their theory, because they have none. The ridicule and lack of supporting scientific evidence are abundantly seen in the articles they write in scientific journals, attempting to refute Creationist books and articles.

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclo...i_vs_ev_28.htm
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Old 12-09-10   #96
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mr. sorcerer...

http://www.mythinglinks.org/euro~west~prehistoric.html

i have to agree with the timeline established by archeology, it makes sense, there were gods more like animals before they were like man and predates so much based from the Abrahamic religions.

i'm more curious about what inspired the image of our gods than where the physical world came from, why does that matter?

it's here and so are we, it's the spiritual no one knows about.
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Old 12-09-10   #97
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Quote:
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original thought is a challenge for some.

personally i like the idea of huge glaciers crashing through mountains leaving huge boulders for nice yard decorations thousands of years later, at least that's how our valley was made; that'd have been awesome to experience!

so, we're essentially not even arguing with him, but with another guy who probably has no clue we are?

how fun!
Thats the top and bottom of it.

Personally, it's made me just give up and realize that some people are just naturally followers and believe anything they read.

I for one am too fucking stubborn to be brainwashed... It just don't work on me.
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Old 12-09-10   #98
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Extraterrestrial Life?


No verified form of life, which originated outside of earth has ever been observed. If life evolved on earth, one would expect that the elaborate experiments sent to the Moon and Mars might have detected at least simple forms of life (such as microbes) that differ in some respects from life on earth (a). [See “Is There Life in Outer Space?”
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp4584911]


Mars Lander

Many people, including Carl Sagan, predicted the Viking Landers would find life on Mars. They reasoned that because life evolved on Earth, some form of life must have evolved on Mars. That prediction proved to be false. The arms of the Viking 1 Lander sampled Martian soil. Sophisticated tests on those samples did not find even a trace of life.

a. The widely publicized claims, made by NASA in 1996, to have found fossilized life in a meteorite from Mars are now largely dismissed. [See Richard A. Kerr, “Requiem for Life on Mars? Support for Microbes Fades,” Science, Vol. 282, 20 November 1998, pp. 1398–1400.]

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp1603091]
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Old 12-10-10   #99
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Old 12-10-10   #100
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You realize the odds for the conditions to be right for life to develop are so slim, expecting life on Mars is like winning the lottery and being surprised your neighbor didn't win it too.
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