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Old 01-13-11   #181
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Fossil Gaps 2


The Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago has one of the largest collections of fossils in the world. Consequently, its former dean, Dr. David Raup, was highly qualified to discuss the absence of transitions in the fossil record:

“Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn’t changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin’s time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of Darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information—what appeared to be a nice simple progression when relatively few data were available now appears to be much more complex and much less gradualistic. So Darwin’s problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection.” David M. Raup, “Conflicts Between Darwin and
Paleontology,” Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin, Vol. 50, No. 1, January 1979, p. 25.

“Surely the lack of gradualism—the lack of intermediates—is a major problem.” Dr. David Raup, as taken from page 16 of an approved and verified transcript of a taped interview conducted by Luther D. Sunderland on 27 July 1979.

“In fact, the fossil record does not convincingly document a single transition from one species to another.” Stanley, p. 95.

“But fossil species remain unchanged throughout most of their history and the record fails to contain a single example of a significant transition.” David S. Woodruff, “Evolution: The Paleobiological View,” Science, Vol. 208, 16 May 1980, p. 716.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown

http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp1012583]
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Old 01-13-11   #182
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Wait, did he really just say that evolution predicts that fossils will form over millions of years? Does he think that evolutionists don't believe in decay or-

you know what, fuck it. THIS IS VERY INTERESTING PAHU PLEASE CONTINUE WORLDWIDE FLOOD HUH.
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Old 01-13-11   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahu View Post

Fossil Gaps 1


If evolution happened, the fossil record should show continuous and gradual changes from the bottom to the top layers.
itt: Evolution predicts that earthquakes, mudslides and erosion don't exist.

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Old 01-13-11   #184
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The Bible says that God created trees. Scientists say the Bible isn't valid! Scientists are saying that trees don't exist! Trees clearly exist. QED Jesus.
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Old 01-14-11   #185
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Old 01-14-11   #186
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The Bible says you are. Clearly science wants you to believe otherwise. SCIENCE=SUICIDE!!1!!1one!
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Old 01-14-11   #187
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That's very interesting Dark Messiah, please continue.
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Old 01-15-11   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahu View Post
Awesome, huh?

not really, that's something that could eat a baby!

I do wonder how big the insects they would have eaten were or did they eat the cute little dinosaurs?
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Old 01-16-11   #189
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Originally Posted by thefr0g View Post
That's very interesting Dark Messiah, please continue.
I actually have an input on this subject...

Years ago, this explorer went to the north pole, dug up about 70 miles of ice single handedly and found an air landing strip, dating back to 600,000,000 BC, proving thus that ZARGON, the ancient alien, came down ot our planet via the North Pole airfield and created man, fish, birds, radiators and other shit you see today. There is no evolution fr0g, only aliens and those aliens are us, highbred from the aliens from the planet ZARGON! And therefore science is wrong.
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Old 01-17-11   #190
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That's very interesting Dark Messiah, please continue.
Well now I don't want to.
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Old 01-17-11   #191
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Fossil Gaps 3


Dr. Colin Patterson, a senior paleontologist at the British Museum (Natural History), was asked by Luther D. Sunderland why no evolutionary transitions were included in Dr. Patterson’s recent book, Evolution. In a personal letter, Patterson said:

“I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be asked to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?...Yet Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say that there are no transitional fossils. As a palaeontologist myself, I am much occupied with the philosophical problems of identifying ancestral forms in the fossil record. You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type organism was derived.” I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.” Copy of letter, dated 10 April 1979, from Patterson to Sunderland.

[From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown
http://www.creationscience.com/onlin...tml#wp1012583]
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Old 01-17-11   #192
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Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
I actually have an input on this subject...

Years ago, this explorer went to the north pole, dug up about 70 miles of ice single handedly and found an air landing strip, dating back to 600,000,000 BC, proving thus that ZARGON, the ancient alien, came down ot our planet via the North Pole airfield and created man, fish, birds, radiators and other shit you see today. There is no evolution fr0g, only aliens and those aliens are us, highbred from the aliens from the planet ZARGON! And therefore science is wrong.

Oh God, not the aliens again, they're out to get me, i swear...they're everywhere!

okay, maybe not so bad in Montana but I hear they're a problem in other places.

but generally i'm tired of hearing it on history channel.
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Old 01-18-11   #193
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So I Googled "Colin Patterson", and this was the first thing that came up:

Excerpt:

Quote:
Dear Mr Theunissen,
Sorry to have taken so long to answer your letter of July 9th. I was away for a while, and then infernally busy. I seem fated continually to make a fool of myself with creationists. The specific quote you mention, from a letter to Sunderland dated 10th April 1979, is accurate as far as it goes. The passage quoted continues "... a watertight argument. The reason is that statements about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record. Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no: there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way to put them to the test."

I think the continuation of the passage shows clearly that your interpretation (at the end of your letter) is correct, and the creationists' is false.

That brush with Sunderland (I had never heard of him before) was my first experience of creationists. The famous "keynote address" at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 was nothing of the sort. It was a talk to the "Systematics Discussion Group" in the Museum, an (extremely) informal group. I had been asked to talk to them on "Evolutionism and creationism"; fired up by a paper by Ernst Mayr published in Science just the week before. I gave a fairly rumbustious talk, arguing that the theory of evolution had done more harm than good to biological systematics (classification). Unknown to me, there was a creationist in the audience with a hidden tape recorder. So much the worse for me. But my talk was addressed to professional systematists, and concerned systematics, nothing else.

I hope that by now I have learned to be more circumspect in dealing with creationists, cryptic or overt. But I still maintain that scepticism is the scientist's duty, however much the stance may expose us to ridicule.

Yours Sincerely,

[signed]

Colin Patterson
Of course, this goes back to Creationists' continued inability to grasp that every species is a transitional species. La.
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Old 01-18-11   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
So I Googled "Colin Patterson", and this was the first thing that came up:

Excerpt:



Of course, this goes back to Creationists' continued inability to grasp that every species is a transitional species. La.
It looks to me that not only does the rest of Patterson's quote confirm what I shared, but actually goes on to confirm that evolution is not scientific: "It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way to put them to the test."
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Old 01-18-11   #195
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At this point I think I'd be sad if Pahu left.
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Old 01-18-11   #196
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Really?



Interesting because if you had come on here botting Walt Brown then I would have had to have said that you were a nutty creationist.



Or a bible basher.



Or probably both.



Interesting really, creationists are just as bad as bible bashers. They set up their own religion yet? Or do you think that scientology has that one covered for you?
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Old 01-19-11   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahu View Post
It looks to me that not only does the rest of Patterson's quote confirm what I shared, but actually goes on to confirm that evolution is not scientific: "It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way to put them to the test."
It seems that way to you because you don't actually understand what evolution or what science is. Evolution doesn't predict that we'll have an exact record of when genetic codes rose or fell and in what order; it only predicts that we can observe these constantly continuing forces in motion. Much like general relativity doesn't predict that we will have an exact history of the beginning of the universe.

Species are permeable. We can't say with certainty in retrospect which species gave rise to which other species because mutations occur in so many nuanced ways that it's all guesswork. This is completely in line with evolution and all that Patterson was saying; you flagrantly promoted an abuse and distortion of his words.
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Old 01-19-11   #198
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At this point I think I'd be sad if Pahu left.
Me to!
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Old 01-19-11   #199
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Sounds like somebody Really Really "Needs" to be important. And is trying to be so by Getting people to tell him hes OK!
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Old 01-19-11   #200
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