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Old 01-29-06   #1
Synikul
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Tolerant, freedom loving muslims creating an international incident over cartoons

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Has defaming Prophets become “Freedom of speech”?

Religion is people- People's ideologies and beliefs should be given great respect. And what journalists call “Freedom of expression” should not by any means hurt the feelings of people; from any religions or sects.

The Muslim world has long been accused of lacking freedom, freedom of expression or freedom of speech included. Looking at what the West today calls “Freedom of Speech” we’ll find that the term has become used as a tool to insult, disrespect and degrade religions in an unprecedented way.

Last September, Jyllands-Posten, the Denmark’s the largest daily circulation Right wing newspaper, challenged the country’s cartoonists to present drawings depicting PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH).

At least twelve drawings of the HOLY PROPHET (PBUH), including one showing him wearing a turban with a bomb or grenade concealed in the back and which also depicts the Islamic creed, there is no god except Allah and that MUHAMMAD (PBUH). is His messenger,’ were published by the paper.

One Danish editor suggested that the cartoons in question were published to stir up public opinion against Muslims in Denmark- If that was true, then something has gone wrong. The cartoons offended and hurt the feelings of Muslims all over the world, in the Middle East and the West.

It is the job of governments and lawmakers to ensure respect and safety of immigrants- That’s how democracies are tested- How a country deals with its minorities is what determines whether it’s a democratic country or not.

Muslims from all over the world condemned the cartoons as blasphemous.

Eleven Muslim ambassadors in Copenhagen, including that of Bosnia and Turkey, demanded to see the Danish Prime Minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, to register their protests. But the Right wing Prime Minister refused to meet them, arguing that Denmark respects freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

Only few of Denmark artists criticised the newspaper Jyllands, saying that the request for the pictures were a provocation and a PR stunt.

The Arab League, and countries of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), The Council of Europe (CoE) also criticised the Danish Government for its refusal to take action claiming that this would violate the country’s tradition of a media exercising its right to free expression.

The CoE Committee of Ministers said that a “a seam of intolerance within Danish society is noted, inter alia, in the political arena as well as in certain media.”

“The [Danish] legislation, such as the reforms of the Aliens Act, and policy, such as the Government’s policy towards integration, may contribute to a climate of hostility towards different ethnic and religious groups.”

In order to allow “Freedom of Speech”, governments and organizations” must first understand what freedom of speech is. Is it freedom that violates the basic rights of one's faith? Is it disrespecting or insulting one's belief or culture or values?

There are numerous ways people can express their views. Lacking freedom of speech prevents a lot of good ideas from being conveyed, and the Qur’an, the Muslims’ holy book orders them to conduct discussions in an orderly and respectable manner. It prohibits ridiculing the Jews/Christians or the Prophets.

The Islamic religion does not allow offensive remarks by both Muslims and Non-Muslims.

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...rvice_id=10554

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UN role urged in Danish cartoon case


The Muslim world's two main political bodies say they are seeking a UN resolution, backed by possible sanctions, to protect religions after the publication in Scandinavia of cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad.

Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, secretary-general of Organisation of the Islamic Conference, said in Cairo on Sunday that the international body would "ask the UN general assembly to pass a resolution banning attacks on religious beliefs".

The deputy secretary-general of the Arab League, Ahmed Ben Helli, confirmed that contacts were under way for such a proposal to be made to the UN.

"Consultations are currently taking place at the highest level between Arab countries and the OIC to ask the UN to adopt a binding resolution banning contempt of religious beliefs and providing for sanctions to be imposed on contravening countries or institutions," he said.

Twelve cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad, published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten daily last September and reprinted in a Norwegian magazine earlier this month, sparked uproar in the Muslim world where images of the prophet are considered blasphemous.

Publishers adamant

The cartoons include portrayal of the prophet wearing a
time-bomb-shaped turban and show him as a wild-eyed, knife-wielding bedouin flanked by two women shrouded in black.

Officials in Muslim countries and various religious bodies have expressed anger at the cartoons, while the editors of the newspapers have defended their publication on the grounds of freedom of expression.

Muslim wrath has spread rapidly in the Middle East, with Gulf retailers pulling Danish products off their shelves and protesters gathering outside Danish embassies.

A poll published on Saturday showed that a majority of Danes felt their government should not apologise over the cartoons.

Meanwhile, a Qatari cooperative society, Al Meera, has decided to boycott Danish and Norwegian products.

The move follows similar action taken by other Gulf countries such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in protest at the cartoons.

Saudi Arabia has denounced the cartoons and has recalled its ambassador from Denmark for consultations.

Company reaction

Danish-based food company Arla said on Friday it would advertise in Saudi newspapers to distance itself from the row after facing a consumer boycott there.

Mette Schouby, a spokeswoman, said: "The advertisements will be published in leading national newspapers."

Saudi Arabia accounts for two-thirds of Arla's sales in the Middle East that total $396 million.

On Saturday, Kuwait's state-supported supermarkets announced a boycott of Danish products, and the Kuwaiti Foreign Ministry called in a regional Danish ambassador to protest against the caricatures while hundreds of Kuwaitis protested outside the Danish consulate.

Products set ablaze

Members of parliament in Bahrain are also calling for a boycott of Danish and Norwegian products.

Danish dairy products were set ablaze on Friday in Bahrain and the anger over the caricatures was also evident in the numerous mobile text messages urging the boycott, according to regional newspapers.

MP Shaikh Mohammed Khalid Mohammed urged people to stop buying Danish and Norwegian products until both countries apologise.

"So what if businesses in Bahrain will be affected, Islam is far more important than anything," he is quoted as saying.

In the emirate of Dubai, a scholar said all Muslim governments should recall their ambassadors from Denmark and boycott its products.

"Those are provocative cartoons that come from sick-minded and irresponsible people,' said the scholar, Ahmad Abd al-Aziz al-Haddad, quoted in the Gulf News.

Danish refusal

Syria on Sunday also joined the chorus of condemnation.

"Syria strongly condemns this insult against the supreme token of the Arab and Islamic nations," the Syrian news agency Sana quoted an unidentified Foreign Ministry official as saying.

The official said the Danish government should punish the offenders.

Jyllands-Posten has refused to apologise for the drawings, citing freedom of speech.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Denmark's prime minister, who has refused to meet ambassadors from Muslim nations over the issue, has said that since freedom of speech is firmly protected in his country, complaints should be handled in court.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...7B1D561DA4.htm

HERE ARE THE CARTOONS


I don't want to see another word from anyone about how Western freedoms will be unaffected by Muslim immigration. NOT ONE MORE GODDAMN FUCKING WORD!!!!!!
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Old 01-29-06   #2
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I won't deny that it might be a possibility albeit an unintentional by-product of the current prevailing muslim culture rather than a direct attempt to cripple and over-run the western world. Most likely, it will just take a period of a few generations for people on both sides of the fence to reach a compromise; personally, I'm more worried about how our country is being run by those in power rather then our being invaded by an alien culture. After-all, political reform would be the most effective way to more thoroughly control immigration into a country.
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Old 01-30-06   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron's Rite
I won't deny that it might be a possibility albeit an unintentional by-product of the current prevailing muslim culture rather than a direct attempt to cripple and over-run the western world.
It isn't a planned attempt. The muslims that are invading Europe are doing it for the same reasons that Mexicans are coming to America, their own nations are third world shitholes with lousy economies. While the individual immigrants aren't planning a takeover, the leaders of the muslim world are salivating at the demographic trends. In our lifetimes, at the current immigration and birth rates, if they are allowed to continue, Islamic law will be voted in.

Muslim immigration isn't a huge problem in America, other than the possibility of terrorist infiltration, but as we see with this turn of events, they don't even need to be here.

Quote:
Most likely, it will just take a period of a few generations for people on both sides of the fence to reach a compromise;
Conservatives and liberals can compromise. This is different. This is a religion that has the stated goal of dominating the planet, and there can be no compromise.

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I'm more worried about how our country is being run by those in power rather then our being invaded by an alien culture.
So vote for other people.

Quote:
After-all, political reform would be the most effective way to more thoroughly control immigration into a country.
We're seeing it in Europe. Nationalist parties are gaining power all over the continent with immigration as their central issue. In 2008 you're going to see it on display in the Republican primary. Republican voters are not going to tolerate another presidential candidate who is as soft on illegal immigration as Bush is.
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Old 01-31-06   #4
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This is just SO hypocritical...
The Arab worlds newspapers are filled with anti American/America and anti-Israel/Jews/Judaism cartoons....even their childrens schoolbooks, and then someone makes a cartoon about them and ooooohh all hell breaks loose

Tssscchh

These people are in serious need of 1 the ability to a bit of selfmockery, 2 some sense of humor and 3 clear the tunnelvision
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Old 02-04-06   #5
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Ohh, thanks.. today im looking for this stupid cartoons..Im Muslim and of course im really angry! In my country and in other Muslim countries ppl are
protesting them..In my city ppl are throwing sth to Danish building..

The most horrible thing is they arent apologizing..They think that it is the expression freedom..But i think there must be a limit of it..Because everyone must respect each others assets especially if this assets are about religion..The are trying to foist us..It isnt a speech or press freedom it is an attack..Nobody has right to hurt us..

Last edited by amyleefan; 02-04-06 at 10:07.
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Old 02-04-06   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amyleefan
Ohh, thanks.. today im looking for this stupid cartoons..Im Muslim and of course im really angry! In my country and in other Muslim countries ppl are
protesting them..In my city ppl are throwing sth to Danish building..

The most horrible thing is they arent apologizing..They think that it is the expression freedom..But i think there must be a limit of it..Because everyone must respect each others assets especially if this assets are about religion..The are trying to foist us..It isnt a speech or press freedom it is an attack..Nobody has right to hurt us..
Fuck you. Fuck all of you. It's obvious that Muslims cannot coexist with civilised people. The mental disorder known as Islam needs to be cleansed from the earth to prevent its spread.



I can't be a moderator anymore, as I can no longer maintain objectivity on any topic that involves these savages.
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Old 02-04-06   #7
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Wow. Makes me wanna stick the Hot Beef Jihad up his ass.
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Old 02-04-06   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amyleefan
Ohh, thanks.. today im looking for this stupid cartoons..Im Muslim and of course im really angry! In my country and in other Muslim countries ppl are
protesting them..In my city ppl are throwing sth to Danish building..

The most horrible thing is they arent apologizing..They think that it is the expression freedom..But i think there must be a limit of it..Because everyone must respect each others assets especially if this assets are about religion..The are trying to foist us..It isnt a speech or press freedom it is an attack..Nobody has right to hurt us..


Are you really serious?
There are dozens of jokes and cartoons about Jesus, Mozes and other Christian and Jewish prophets.....I don't see them raging and ranting and overreacting? Why are Muslims in general so oversensitive I wonder. (not to offend you but I really wonder, maybe you can explain?)
A bit of self mockery can't hurt, humor saves lives.
Yes it is YOUR prophet, but it is not the prophet of lots of other people.

And besides, why get upset over cartoons about your religion and "stereotyping" when the Muslim/arab world's newspapers are full with such cartoons all the time (anti jewish, ant american etc)
They do the exact same thing, mock others and make them into stereotypes, such as this for example on an Arab tv programm:



These cartoon were printed in september last year, all of a sudden it is all hyped up, there are political reasons behind it, arab governments used it, used you as a people.
And you all fall for it.


And to lighten spirits, here's a funny one about one of my own prophets


(why don't image tags work anymore??)
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Old 02-04-06   #9
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why should the world give damn about these hypocrites that don't protest against the anti-semitic cartoons?
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Old 02-05-06   #10
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Fuck you.Fuck all of you.
please be calm..You can be angry to Muslims..You are seeing some bad ones and u think that all the Muslims are the same..

Quote:
There are dozens of jokes and cartoons about Jesus, Mozes and other Christian and Jewish prophets.....I don't see them raging and ranting and overreacting? Why are Muslims in general so oversensitive I wonder. (not to offend you but I really wonder, maybe you can explain?)
A bit of self mockery can't hurt, humor saves lives.
Yes it is YOUR prophet, but it is not the prophet of lots of other people.
Uhmm, you said "oversensitive "..How can i tell i dont know.. Acording to ppl.,religion is the most important thing in the world (my country and i are not like that at all...You know Arabs or other Muslim countries...They are very strict..)And i want sth..My English isnt very good at all.I will try to explain as i can..

Quote:
And besides, why get upset over cartoons about your religion and "stereotyping" when the Muslim/arab world's newspapers are full with such cartoons all the time (anti jewish, ant american etc)
I dont know Arab newspapers..maybe it can be true but i didnt say anything about i support them.PLease dont mix all Muslims..A person can think they are good but i dont want any country to do respectless behaviors..I think my first reply was angerful..It was not to u of course, to ppl. who did these things.i was angryBut pls try to talk calmly..By the way sorry for my english..
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Old 02-05-06   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synikul
I can't be a moderator anymore, as I can no longer maintain objectivity on any topic that involves these savages.
Opps o_O savage?? PLease! If my English was my main language,i would want to talk to you better about this subject..I dont understand what is wrong with that? By the way i was talking about Danish man.. :S

By the way it isnt a savage..Do you really know what does savage mean?Ask innocent ppl in the ......anyway.. Dont leave moderator.. I can leave if you want..dONt bother..I dont guess these things..But it is a debate part..be calm or i dont write anything here..
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Old 02-05-06   #12
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My reply was calm ;-)

You got angry about the cartoon which basically says Islam = Terrorists
Well, I don't see why because there are a lot LOT of cartoons that say for instance Judaism = greed, conspiracies, bloodthirsty etc etc (pictures of rats wearing yarmulkas, pictures of orthodox jews as the shark of Jaws etc)
And there are a lot of Jesus mocking cartoons around too, but I don't see such extreme reactions from Christians or Jews to a bunch of cartoons.
That's why I said Muslims are over sensitive, going around making threats and burning flags....(and there are a lot of them doing that...even Imams here in the Netherlands are raging about it)

You know it isn't true, I know it isn't true (the stereotyping of a whole group)

Just, to react this way (the Arab countries and muslims in other countries that went about firing up Danish embassies) is to be a hypocrite, first take a look at themselves and then judge what others do.
Also, the Arab world will have to accept that their way of living is not the way of living in the Western world.
I don't think the Danes should apologize for something that is pretty normal in this part of the world, they are not living under Sharia or Muslim laws, so why should they follow those laws.
But still the Danish government already said apologies....I guess that was not good enough??

Don't leave, discussion is good :-)


Ironic btw how in Palestine they are banning Danish goods and other Western goods now, that were paid for with aidmoney of the Western world to begin with....

I'm religious too.
If I had to get that angry about every anti jewish joke or cartoon or remark I hear/see, pfew, I would spend my whole life in anger, which isn't good, so best thing is to lighten up and laugh about it....
If you are strong in your faith it can't hurt you.
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Old 02-05-06   #13
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I don't know about the Heebs, but the fucking Christians DO get all up in arms when someone makes fun of, or does anything going against their faith. At least here in the US they do. They don't burn down buildings, I'll give them that, but they do protest, they do lobby, they don't take it on the chin and laugh it off as you are sort of implying.
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Old 02-05-06   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefr0g
I don't know about the Heebs, but the fucking Christians DO get all up in arms when someone makes fun of, or does anything going against their faith. At least here in the US they do. They don't burn down buildings, I'll give them that, but they do protest, they do lobby, they don't take it on the chin and laugh it off as you are sort of implying.


(Peaceful) protest is something completely different than what is going on right now in the Arab/Muslim world. Which is just a plain explosion of aggression.
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Old 02-05-06   #15
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I agree completely. All I'm saying is that most faiths, in general, have a hard time making fun of themselves. Whereas I know many individuals who can do it just fine.
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Old 02-05-06   #16
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Yea every religion has people who have no sense of humor and take everything personal or too seriously.
Also in mine, but the majority has learned to use humor as a means of survival so to speak. Best to make a little bit of fun about yourself then let someone else do it ;-) Humor creates space, space creates hope and so on


And on a lighter note:

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Gestapo

Gestapo who?

Ve Vill ask ze Questions!


Knock Knock

Who's there?

Boo

Boo Who?

Stop crying idiot, those gestapo guys are already gone
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Old 02-05-06   #17
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I think the world would be a much much better place if everyone could learn to laugh at themselves. Unfortunately that will never happen.
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Old 02-05-06   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefr0g
I don't know about the Heebs, but the fucking Christians DO get all up in arms when someone makes fun of, or does anything going against their faith. At least here in the US they do. They don't burn down buildings, I'll give them that, but they do protest, they do lobby, they don't take it on the chin and laugh it off as you are sort of implying.
Not only do they not burn buildings, they dont murder film directors, take hostages or
try to hold up Diplomat buildings at gun point.
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Old 02-06-06   #19
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I know these ones..I saw it in Filistin.These things are unnessary..


Maybe you could see anti-judaism or the others..I havent seen them but it isnt the fault of other Muslims..The fault belongs the person who did or does the cartoons.In Chiristian and Islam,you should respect other prophets and religions..am i right?

By the way im really sad about sth..When somebody heard "Muslim",they began to think we are terrorist.."""It isnt true"""..Yeah there are some Muslim terrorists but now some ppl. began to think" Islam is a terrorism religion,Islam thinks that terrorism is true..." NO,It's "definetely" false..When everything is like that, somebody is drawing a bomb on Muhammed's head(even though he supported peace)..Knowing that most ppl. in the East is thinking Muslims are terrorists,is horrible o_O<<< I must care these one..
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Old 02-06-06   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amyleefan
I know these ones..I saw it in Filistin.These things are unnessary..


Maybe you could see anti-judaism or the others..I havent seen them but it isnt the fault of other Muslims..The fault belongs the person who did or does the cartoons.In Chiristian and Islam,you should respect other prophets and religions..am i right?

By the way im really sad about sth..When somebody heard "Muslim",they began to think we are terrorist.."""It isnt true"""..Yeah there are some Muslim terrorists but now some ppl. began to think" Islam is a terrorism religion,Islam thinks that terrorism is true..." NO,It's "definetely" false..When everything is like that, somebody is drawing a bomb on Muhammed's head(even though he supported peace)..Knowing that most ppl. in the East is thinking Muslims are terrorists,is horrible o_O<<< I must care these one..
You need to learn a little more about Muhammad then, he was a war lord. And very vicious.
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