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Old 09-23-04   #1
Sphyre
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Pill propelled into abortion debate

It's SOOO nice to find this in a news source out of the country!

Quote:
The birth control pill revolutionised women's health - and grew to become one of the most popular forms of family planning. But it is now under attack from pro-life groups in the US.

A growing number of doctors and pharmacists are now refusing to dispense it, on the grounds that it is actually a form of abortion.

Pro-choice groups fear this new moral objection to the Pill could lead to more unplanned pregnancies, even more abortions.

A woman taking the Pill does not usually release eggs. But occasionally she might - and it is possible that egg could be fertilised.

The hormonal conditions created by the Pill mean, if that happened, the fertilised egg would not be implanted or survive.

Mainstream medicine does not define that as a pregnancy. But some of those strictly against abortion do.

Dr Cynthia Jones-Nosacek - a family doctor in Milwaukee - now refuses to prescribe the Pill. She opposes it on moral grounds, arguing it is a form of abortion.

"The contraceptive pill doesn't always prevent ovulation. As often as 30% of the time, ovulation may occur and if that happens, fertilisation may occur," Dr Jones-Nosacek says.

"Then there are other mechanisms that can prevent that being from surviving. It's called a chemical abortion."

'Caught off-guard'

That definition is suddenly gaining support and some pharmacists now refuse to dispense the Pill.

Julee Lacey, a mother of two, had used the Pill for nine years when a pharmacist at her local chemist in Texas refused her prescription.

"She [the pharmacist] began to tell me she personally does not believe in birth control," says Ms Lacey.

"I was a little caught off-guard and shocked... I asked her again. She said: 'No, ma'am, I don't believe in birth control. I can't help you'...

"I really couldn't believe she had the right to withhold my medication from me," she adds.

At first these were just isolated cases, mostly in the Midwest. But recently they have increased dramatically.

Pro-choice groups now call it a significant and growing trend. Lisa Boyce of Planned Parenthood in Wisconsin says it is a conscious extension of the abortion debate.

"They've done so much with outlawing and restricting access to abortion that they've set their sights on birth control because there's nothing else really they can do to further restrict abortion here in Wisconsin," Ms Boyce says.

"Which is counter-intuitive because if you're against abortion in the least you'd think you would see the value in enhancing access birth control, the very means women look to preventing pregnancy and the need for abortion."

Conscience clauses

And in the run-up to the election, it is a hot political topic too.

This year 12 states took steps to try to introduce so-called conscience clauses. They allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense drugs, including the Pill, on moral grounds, without losing their jobs.

In Wisconsin, the mostly-Republican assembly passed the bill, only to have it vetoed by the Democratic governor.

Representative Curt Gielow says pharmacists should be protected.

"There was an incident where a pharmacist who worked in a retail drug store refused on conscience to fill a prescription and that individual was terminated from employment," Mr Gielow says.

"That, I believe, set the stage for concern there might be employment discrimination opportunity here if in fact you listened to your conscience instead of doing what the boss told you to do."

At the moment, the Pill is hugely popular in the US. But calling it a type of abortion opens up a whole new front in the pro-life, pro-choice debate.

This moral condemnation is a fresh challenge to one of the most used, most reliable methods of family planning.
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Old 09-23-04   #2
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I heard about this awhile back, on a radio news channel..I thought it was absolutely absurd. I'm surprised by the outbreak of cases that have emerged since then. I'm rather confused, on why the representative would state that 'pharmacists should be protected'. On what grounds? They shouldn't be able to decide whether or not, somebody should be taking what they are. I cannot believe they actually passed a clause, that would allow such a thing..People are absolutely ignorant.*sighs* I hate humanity.
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Old 09-23-04   #3
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Yeah, I thought that's what doctors were for.

And I thought it was unprofessional to let something like religion influence how you deal with your job.

It's so aggriavating. What? Do they want us to fill the world to point where we'll no longer be able to stand up straight and still without bumping into one another? And since when did Protestants and Catholics agree?
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Old 09-23-04   #4
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Oh boo...I dont even know what to say except boo...

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Originally Posted by GoddessOfDeath
I hate humanity.
That feels very paradoxal...^^^
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Old 09-23-04   #5
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I absolutely agree. And regardless on what anyone has to state, their invading the privacy of the customer. I'm a vegetarian. Now if I was working at Burger King, I would have the right to refuse the customers, a whopper, due to my lack of acceptence that everyone has their own perspectives on various issues. Nooo, I must bestow my own beliefs among, other people. And you know what makes it worse? They were actually granted the clause to do so!
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Old 09-23-04   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonnyte
Oh boo...I dont even know what to say except boo...
lol, yesh, You stated your case magnificently!
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Old 09-23-04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoddessOfDeath
lol, yesh, You stated your case magnificently!
yea I know I just...what's the problem? Im here to disagree and get all liberal right? Heh - mostly cause I need my pills

But how is it abortion if its not really a living organism yet? I mean - is it living cells? Yes, right? Oh I hated biology so I dont really understand it - would someone mind enlightening me more on this issue?
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Old 09-23-04   #8
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I've never heard of this before. This is carrying the pro-life position way too far.
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Old 09-23-04   #9
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Ehh.. as far as people dispensing the pill.. I don't know how free market applies to professions like being a doctor, but I would say it's just as much a pharmacist's choice to not give out something like that as it is a woman's right to use it. If you don't agree with him, don't go to that pharmacy anymore. Or write a letter to the company he works for complaining about it. If they side with him, it's time for a good ol fashion boycott. That's how our free trade enterprise works.

Store owners should be able to require you to suck their dicks for every purchase you make in their store. What keeps them from doing this (or slightly less questionable sales practices) is that people wouldn't keep coming to their shop anymore, that and their competition might be offering to sell things without a blowjob tax.

Outraged? You're American's, damnit, don't be pussies and try to get a law to stand in your favor. Your opinion of being for this is no different than their opinion of being against it. They just happen to be in a position to do something about it. You don't like that, don't be a pussy and get a law to make them do what you want, show em good ol American unyielding hard headed spirit, put em out of business, get em fired, support their competitors. This is how things were meant to be done.
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Old 09-25-04   #10
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Just read my signature....
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Old 09-25-04   #11
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yet another reason to break the monopoly of pharmacies
free the drug trade!
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Old 09-25-04   #12
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Where I come from 'free drug trade' means buying your weed in the southside.
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Old 09-25-04   #13
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Quote:
I've never heard of this before. This is carrying the pro-life position way too far.
Agreed.

Quote:
it. If you don't agree with him, don't go to that pharmacy anymore.
Easier said than done when you live in a place with only one pharmacy like most of the places where the pill would be denied to people.

Quote:
Outraged? You're American's, damnit, don't be pussies and try to get a law to stand in your favor. Your opinion of being for this is no different than their opinion of being against it. They just happen to be in a position to do something about it. You don't like that, don't be a pussy and get a law to make them do what you want, show em good ol American unyielding hard headed spirit, put em out of business, get em fired, support their competitors. This is how things were meant to be done.
About the only thing I can do about this is keep it from happening to my state... Which as it stands at the moment it probably won't. Since I'm not a voter in the states in question I can do considerably less.

I heard from a health care professional that it's probably required that if some one is uncomfortable with giving some one medication, the the pharmacy has to employ some one who is willing to do so. I would like to think that's true but I doubt it.

I would like to add that this goes beyond just birth control. It's just the simple fact that people are going above the heads of people who are more familiar with another person's body for no other reason than they feel that it's their duty. In this case, not everyone on birth control is really capable of carrying a child to term or at all. And not everyone who gets pregnant while on the pill is necessarily going to miscarry. But what if some one else decided that they didn't agree with people taking another kind of medication for whatever reason and started telling people that they refused it to them?

I guess it bothers me so much because it goes against my strongest and deepest moral convictions.
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Old 09-26-04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty lady
A woman taking the Pill does not usually release eggs.
Isn't that abortion, in a sense?
You're basically saying: "No no, I don't want the baby(Thus the egg)."
That egg which might have been released could have been impregnated or whatnot, thus making it all doomishly baby.
So neener.
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Old 09-26-04   #15
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In response to Sphyre, alright, good points, but remember the people you're opposing have moral convictions jsut as strong and deep as yours. Just because you don't feel the same way about it as they do doesn't make you right. Nor does it make them right, but I still disgree strongly about making a law to make them go against what they feel strongly about. A lot of it is easier said than done, but America wasn't founded to be an "easy" land, it was founded to be a free one. Freedom most certainly almost never goes hand in hand with being easy. If you beleive so strongly about it, fight for it, rally for it, but don't take away the opposition's right to oppose you.

And in response to that George Carlin signature: Fertalized eggs are not used for eating. When you do find one, it's one that got there accidentily, and you can tell it's been fertalized because of a small red dot or some later development of the baby chicken appearent on/where the yolk is. Lord sakes, people, aint any of you been on a farm before? Buncha garl dern yuppies...
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Old 09-26-04   #16
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Jesus people, let's just not masturbate then. All those poor little sperm cells must feel so much pain! (this is depressing because even though this is clearly sarcasm, someone is going to take it seriously)
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Old 09-26-04   #17
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That's so true Sour!
DAMN US ALL TO HELL FOR PLAYING WITH OUR DING DONGS!
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Old 09-26-04   #18
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onanism is a sin!

i hope nobody tells the fundies that a miscarriage is technically a spontaneous abortion, they'll want to make it a crime too

Last edited by errhead; 09-26-04 at 14:39.
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Old 09-26-04   #19
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not really on topic, but a quote by the great Bill Hicks on abortion-

I'm not a girl, I'm a guy you know? But at the same time, I tell ya how you can solve this abortion issue right now. Ready?
Those unwanted babies that single moms leave in alleys and in dumpsters? Leave about 12 of those on the steps of The Supreme Court.
This is over. Like that.
"You guys said we had to have them? Then you guys...FUCKING RAISE 'EM."
"Raise 'em then, you fucking fucking raise 'em. YOU raise 'em. You said I had to have it? Then it's yours.
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Old 09-26-04   #20
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Quote:
A lot of it is easier said than done, but America wasn't founded to be an "easy" land, it was founded to be a free one.
Free shouldn't mean taking away the rights of another. They have the right to not dispense it. They have the right to do not do it themselves. They don't have to the right to tell some one, "Nope, not getting your pills!" They should be REQUIRED to have some who will dispense it.

I'm by no means saying that they can't oppose my decision or anyone else's, but you have to remember that I do nothing to impede on their life. The only things I do that apparently make their lives a pit of Hell on Earth deal with my life and my life only. There's no reason anything I do should effect them, but for some reason it does. I don't believe in their god (oh noz!!!) I have premarital sex... sometimes... (vile disgusting! Obviously ruining their lives!) I like women (*gasp*) oh and something about black hair (that's it, burn her!) It's not like I find ANYONE who would think like this and tell them they're wrong. It's not like I shove my life style in their face (they're the ones who look at me, if they do) I don't advertise. And I'm going to assume that for ninety five of the people effected by this it's the same. And yet these people insist and interfering with THEIR lives. The only life they should worry about should be their own. And if they need to, that of their loved ones. There is not a single reason for them to do this to a stranger.

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Jesus people, let's just not masturbate then. All those poor little sperm cells must feel so much pain! (this is depressing because even though this is clearly sarcasm, someone is going to take it seriously)
Actually you're not so far off....
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