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Old 01-19-04   #1
John Preston
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Is Killing Art?

I'm just wondering this..

Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

That's one of the definitions of art. And...well..killing is something that occurs often in nature. So you're kind of imitating, supplementing, or in some other version altering the very basic work of nature. In the end..it seems pretty dang artistic, especially when you get into people who have basic MO's like slicing out spiffy sentences in a person's body.

Grotesque..perhaps..but is it not art?
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Old 01-20-04   #2
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Natural killing is no more an art than taking a crap.
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Old 01-20-04   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy_Person
Natural killing is no more an art than taking a crap.
And yet they've had pictures of people urinating and "taking craps" in actual art galleries..
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Old 01-20-04   #4
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Art is not natural, creation is.
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Old 01-20-04   #5
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martial arts, anyone?
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Old 01-21-04   #6
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i think it would depend on the morbidability *small wink* of a persons mind...i can see how some could view killing as an art, not the senseless slaughter that requires nothing more than a chip on your shoulder.

the art of selecting what you want to kill, and then planning the method...i use the term what because this includes hunting...but those who do kill reasonably often times take pride and time in finishing the kill...whether it's a perfectly scoped, long range rifle to the heart after tracking the animal, or an elaborate ritual of slicing and bondage...it can be considered art...

kind of like the line between porn and eroticism...some of it's in your face, other styles are more subtle in their beauty...but isn't beauty always in the eye of the beholder?
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Old 01-22-04   #7
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I'd say yes with Jordyn about the hunting side, but also perfect murders, the ones were even forensic experts have no way(as of yet) to solve. Those two styles I would consider art. Also a brave death(though not particularly murder) I would consider art; such as dying to save someone else's life especialy a stranger.
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Old 01-25-04   #8
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homicidal art is not such a hard concept to think about. depending on your defention of art, mine being anything that is the product of skill, talent, and creativity, depends on how you look at it. I'm a taoist/transendentalist thus finding everything of nature to be beautiful, i find natural death to be the most beautiful part of nature.

human deaths, thou usually containing a bit more desire and not enough simplicity, can be ultimately beautiful things. Martial arts, (the science of prolonging death while killing), hunting, stalking, swords, guns, all of it. Something about death itself makes it beautiful and artistic to me. All those involve talent (shooting a gun right is hard), skill (swords are heardto weild) and creativity (the matrix style fighting of mixing everything for style yet effectivity (these are the non matrix moves that therotically can be pulled off in the real world)). All of it is a great art.
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Old 01-25-04   #9
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Are we using simply John Preston's definition of the term "art" or any definition?

If we are using solely that definition then any form of killing would be considered art, as horrible as it sounds. If we are using all definitions of "art" then the it would have to be broken down into "what were the motives behind this killing and how was it preformed."

For example, saying that art is a form of self expression would indicate that all murder and killing is art. If you say that art is a representation of society then if could be argued that not all killing is art.
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Last edited by Sphyre; 01-25-04 at 15:34.
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Old 01-25-04   #10
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the art of war......duh
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Old 01-28-04   #11
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Just about anything can be art lol ..so with killing its more about the Style ,form or end result that becomes artistic ( Hey JP See the Movie HUNTING HUMANS !! youll dig it !) look a moose head on da wall ..art ,look this guy only uses a butterknife to kill ..art form ?
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Old 01-28-04   #12
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oh yes. most definitely. both in terms of assassination and also in terms of combat. and i'd also say that it's an art which, once mastered, produces, creates, ensures and maintains freedom.

all the best,
Oazaki.
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Old 01-28-04   #13
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there again arises a problem......as you say, anythinng can be considered art, yet we must not let ourselves think like that....for anything can be art, then what the fuck is art? itz nothing, in that sense...........
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Old 01-28-04   #14
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Quite. By John Preston's definition just about anything is art, which is clearly a useless definition. If a definition includes building a house, say, as art, then that does not suddenly make the building of a house all of a sudden worthy of our thought and reflection. It means that we have the wrong definition for art.

Personally I hate defining things like 'art.' Another poor definition is that it is something that inspires us to think in a different way. What doesn't? If you look at something, anything, and start thinking about it, then you will realise things about it or other things that you had not previously realised. That is not art, it is reflection. We can reflect on anything.

I would say that art has to convey a specific message, intended by the artist. It is about an artist getting his message across in a way that allows us to experience that message 'first hand.' If he wants to portray horror, he must horrify us, by a picture, a sculpture, or music, or words. It is not enough to say 'the bombing of Guernica was horrible.' He has to paint Guernica, and horrify us.
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Old 01-28-04   #15
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Using a gun to kill is not art.

In my opinion art is the result of a process that demanded above average skill and it can be argued that shooting is a skill to master -alone it is but killing takes an above average mentality and killing with guns is the least difficult way to kill.
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Old 01-28-04   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
there again arises a problem......as you say, anythinng can be considered art, yet we must not let ourselves think like that....for anything can be art, then what the fuck is art? itz nothing, in that sense...........

art; like beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
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Old 01-31-04   #17
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Up to a point. If I choose to believe that this computer is art, that doesn't make it art. It just means I'm wrong.
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Old 02-03-04   #18
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You are projecting a close minded idea of art still... Art is not always required to be appealing to the eye, consider the mind.

Repeating myself; art is something that was passionately created with an above average skill. A computer can be intellectual art, but of course that specific computer would not be a standard computer like the one sitting before you.
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Old 02-03-04   #19
sixxx(sic)six
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordyn
art; like beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
thatz true, despite being cliche........yet, if art is indeed within the eye of the beholder, then why is some art more-so art than other art........that is, if art is in the eye of the beholder, then thatz what art is; therefore, the Mona Lisa is no more art than Shit-on-a-Canvas.....however, that is not justified, for most certaintly the Mona Lisa is more-so art than Shit-on-a-Canvas is art......why? Well, don't blame the masses!!! no, blame the artist! for there exists the "good artist" and the "bad artist".........you say art is in the eye of the beholder, well then why do so many eyes view this as good and that as bad? so, what is art?
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Old 02-04-04   #20
Arty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnom
You are projecting a close minded idea of art still... Art is not always required to be appealing to the eye, consider the mind.

Repeating myself; art is something that was passionately created with an above average skill. A computer can be intellectual art, but of course that specific computer would not be a standard computer like the one sitting before you.
The skill has little to do with it. If it does what it's meant to then it's art.

Also, I don't think art is necessarily to do with beauty (though it certainly can be). But it must say convey the feeling that the artist intends. Computers don't count.
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