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Old 06-18-02   #1
vampyrissofdark
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advice and help fpr me please!!!!!

ok i am 16, and my boyfriend is 23, i am pregnant about 5 weeks, and i dont want to tell my mother because she will send him to jail. any advice on how i could convince her not too?? also he says it is all my fault and he is the one who told me to stop my birth control!!! oh and he refuses to use a condom. im not saying its all his fault, but i know its not all mine. what should i tell him???
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Old 06-18-02   #2
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You should say its his fault, because it is.This is coming from a guy that usualy takes the guy`s side but he seems like the kind of person that takes advantage of young women emotionaly.It IS his fault, you should say to him that hes lucky that you are on his side in this at all.
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Old 06-18-02   #3
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Yes, its his fault. Most definately.

There are places you can go for this...totally confidential...I don't know what all you can do there but you might be able to get SOME help. Try that first, see if there's something you can do.

But I beg you, don't abort it. If you're just going to get rid of it, then put it up for adoption. In the long run, its a better decision...I think. I'm not all anti abortion...rape its fine...but when you know what you're doing...thats something different. Good luck.
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Old 06-18-02   #4
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thanx

i totally agree with you on the abortion issue, i could never do that to my baby or to myself, and i think anyone who would ask me to do that has no interest for me in their mind. so this is even more confusing cause i really love him!!! he is complaining about how he would have to get a different job and how we would have to move, but what about all the changes my body is going to go through, like im ready for that!! im 16!!! and all the pain at labor not to mention and what im going to do about my schooling!!! but no it is my responsibility and i am going to take care of it, even if he doesnt want to help!!but i just really wish he could be here for me on this, because it feels like he has totaly abandoned me when i really need him the most!!
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Old 06-18-02   #5
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p.s.

he said something about abortion, and i got mad and he said he was just kidding, so i told him i had a joke for him, i told him that if someone would have aborted him i wouldnt be in this mess!!!! (he didnt think it was very funny)
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Old 06-18-02   #6
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Good, I'm glad. Check one of those places out that I was talking about though. Maybe you could figure out if there's a way to protect your boyfriend from the Wrath of Mom. I hope he takes some responsibility for what happened.

This may hurt a bit, and you may not believe it anyway, but if I were you, I'd step back and think about what his feelings are for you. No matter what he says. I can't think of much other use a 23 year old would have for a 16 year old besides sex. A friend of my girlfriend has a 21 year old boyfriend. Sex seems to be the main basis for their relationship. If you really do care for each other, than fine. But its something you should really consider...

(I'm 16 if that means anything...you at least have an idea of where the view is coming from)
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Old 06-18-02   #7
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thank you

i really appreciate your help i didnt think anyone would really reply to this. but im glad that you did, so are you a gil or a boy ?? i made him wait around 2 months before we had sex, and he thinks ive cheated on him (which i havent) and he couldnt dump me, so i know he loves me, he goes through a lot for me that i know no one would put up with just for sex. but yes i did consider that. i think he might just be scared, hes never really had to think of anyone but himself until i came a long, and its been a year and i think he is just getting used to thinking about me you know. i am just really confused. but i guess i will just see how he comes through. thanks again!!
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Old 06-19-02   #8
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Good lord, sometimes I'm really ashamed to be male.

You want advice? Tell your mom, have yourself an abortion and get rid of the "guy". Your 16, you have a the ability to make the right choice, The one that won't ruin your life. Try not to listen to hard to pro-life statements. Do what is good for you, not what's good for others.

Many people who are pro-life would like us to believe that life begins at the moment of conception, and therefore any abortion is tantamount to taking a life; it is murder. On the opposite end of the spectrum are those who would like us to believe that life does not begin until birth, and therefore any abortion should be completely the choice of the mother. Most other people, myself included probably feel that life actually begins somewhere in between these two extremes, though exactly at what point is bit of a mystery.

The simple problem is this... no one can prove either point. No one can prove when life begins. The determination would be largely arbitrary, based on each person's beliefs of exactly what constitutes "life" or being alive. When is the fetus "alive"? When does it cease to be simply an extension of the mother's body, and become its own sentient life form? Everybody has an opinion, and everybody can throw out some "facts" to support their viewpoint. Unfortunately, the human body didn't come with a technical manual that spells out in detail exactly when life begins, and so all of these opinions are just that: opinions.

The simple solution is this, since no one can prove anything one way or the other, it makes the most sense to leave the choice up to each individual, and her beliefs. Any attempt to do otherwise would mean allowing one set of people to force their belief system on another. Most of us would agree that freedom of speech (and freedom of thought) is a worthwhile thing, so this is the only logical solution.

You can be both anti-abortion and pro-choice. It may appear a contradiction at first, but it doesn't need to be. You need simply to subscribe to reasoning given above. It is perfectly reasonable for you to believe that any abortion is wrong, as long as you are willing to admit that it is your personal belief, and you would allow others to make up their minds accordingly. And there is nothing wrong with trying to convince people of your point of view, just as I am doing here now. But it isn't right to force your opinion on others. That would be immoral.

[The argument should end here. There is no other rational argument that can be made that could possibly override the above logic. But I realize that people aren't always dealing in logic, especially on the issue of abortion; a lot of it is about emotions. So....]

On The Other Hand,I won't lie to you. I'm definitely pro-abortion. I am against late-term (third trimester) abortions, but I think the argument that a clump of cells constitutes a human life is ludicrous. However, even if tomorrow some scientist came up with irrefutable proof that life begins at the moment of conception, I would still argue for keeping abortions legal.

As a practical matter, we need abortion in our society. In fact we probably need more abortions.

I think it is a good thing that some people are willing to admit that they aren't ready or do not want to be a parent. They aren't ready to devote their love, their income, and the rest of their life to another person. Given the choice between bringing a child into a situation where he will not be loved or cared for, and having it aborted, I think it is more humane to opt for the abortion.

Women who kill their children because they are too lazy to care for the child probably should have had an abortion. You hear stories in the news occasionally about how a woman had a baby and dumped it in a garbage can behind the hospital. It first makes me sick. Then it makes me go, "Geez, if she didn't want it that bad, why didn't she just have an abortion in the first place?" In the very least, these women should be sterilized to prevent this from happening again.

Women who are on perpetual welfare should be required to get an abortion the moment they become pregnant. Why should they be allowed to bring in another child that they can't care for when they can't even care for themselves? And don't let them try to sneak one in by keeping it a secret either. If they manage to have that baby, force them to give it up for adoption. At least it will end up in a family capable of caring for it.

What if…If you could go back in time and convince Adolf Hitler's mother to have an abortion instead of giving birth to him, would you? If you said no, do you think you might feel differently if you were Jewish, and 20 members of your family were slaughtered during World War II? (I'm not going to debate this question; I just think it is an interesting question.)

I do not believe in the potential of an unborn human life. Yes, it is possible that this person will grow up to cure cancer and rid the world of disease and poverty. On the other hand, maybe he will grow up to be the person who unleashes nuclear holocaust and destroys the human race. Who knows? Why get all bent out of shape over it? The only people who are really going to be affected by the decision to have or not have an abortion are the parents. So it should remain their choice. (In all likelihood, this person would have simply grown up to be another one of the faceless billions, who lives a long life, and eventually dies having made little or no impact on the rest of society.)

In any event, I can guarantee that the unborn child doesn't care, and won't know the difference. It's not like the fetus is sitting in there thinking, "Gee, I sure hope I get a chance to grow up and make an impact in people's lives!" Get real. Have you ever noticed that you have no memories of anything that happened before at least age two or three? That's because you didn't have a meaningful thought in your head until that time.

And if the fertilized egg is a potential human, so is the unfertilized egg. My gosh, every time a woman has her period, it's just like an abortion! We need to enact laws to force women to get pregnant on each menstrual cycle and carry the children to term. Any less is not giving that person a chance at life!

One last thing I almost forgot, but it is an important one. I believe that an abortion should be allowed right up to the moment of birth if it means saving the life of the mother. I can think of nothing more horrible than having to trade the woman I love and want to spend the rest of my life with for a newborn baby that is a complete stranger to me. Resenting the child does not seem to me to be a good way to begin a parent-child relationship.

I've spent years forging my relationship with this woman, and hope to spend the rest of my days with her. I have no past relationship with the baby, and at best it will only be a primary figure in my life for 18 years or so.

Besides, the mother has proven potential. The baby has proven nothing. Furthermore, my wife can help me cope with the loss of the baby, and I can do the same for her. The baby cannot help me in that way.

If the choice comes down to losing either the mother or the baby, I have to give the upper hand to the mother every time. Someone who doesn't care for his wife as much as I do might argue differently.

Anyway, thats just an opinion. This is the advice forum after all
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Old 06-19-02   #9
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thanx

thank you for those facts, they were helpful. but i still cannot bring myself to consider an abortion, it is my personal opinion that strikes me against it. i think that abortion, along with many other subjects are all just personal opinion. but most of these subjects get twisted when people assume that there is a right or wrong, black and white ect. i think there are some people who just shouldnt be alowed to procreate for the fact that they are just stupid, or sick mentally. but if i am healthy, and was irresponsible, then i can just throw away my baby and pretend that it was the right thing to do. and trust me i do know this has a lot to do with my emotions, but i have never agreed with abortion for myself but i do think it is right in situations, and that it is a womans choice. but i also think that the father, or her father or mother or anyone should try to push or persuade her in anyways. thank you again. as for the hitler comment, i would go back and tell her to abort him, and i am ot jewish. anyways but maybe if someone could go back in time and tell your mother to abort you, then what would you say, what would other people say. a few months ago i would have said that i would go back and tell her to myself. but now, i think maybe there is a purpose for me, and for all of this, i dont know now, maybe i wont ever, but there is that chance that i was born for a good reson, and maybe my baby will think so too.
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Old 06-20-02   #10
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As for the question directed towards me. If someone could go back in time and convince my mother to abort my fetus, then more power to them. Although I've enjoyed parts of my life and care about some things deeply, I would of rather not endured any of the pain. Life is like a bad book, with a few decent chapters. Although enjoyable at time, all and all its a horrid thing
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Old 06-20-02   #11
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I'm male, by the way, since you asked.

Fallen, I don't have TOO much of a problem with abortion...if something breaks, then fine. It would have been a mistake...

But they did NOT use birth control. They had to know what could've happened. They were just asking for something like this to occur, and its good that she's going to take responsibility for this. And hopefully he will too, if he actually cares.

Ride him hard to make sure he's going to stick with you now...and if it doesn't look like he's going to, then confront him about it.
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Old 06-20-02   #12
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I agree that it would be nice if this "guy" stood up and did the right thing, but all things considered, I highly doubt it. The guy is 23 and you're 16. Believe it or not, but you both live in totally different worlds and 99.9% of the time a guy in his 20's messes around with someone under the age of 18, he's only got on thing on his mind, sex. And the other 0.1% of them are doing it because they have some serious control issues and prey on the weaker willed and the less mature of minds. Not that I'm implying that you are any of these things, but its what they look for. The younger the more likely the character traits, will exist.

So, that being said, I'm completely aware that you're not going to really listen. Or you may, but you will probably say "Thats true, but not me, this guy REALLY loves me. I know because..etc." After all you are only 16 and you did let him talk you in to getting off birth control. (WTF?) But I promise you, this guy will flake out. I suggest you nail him for child support, because chances are you'll never be able to finish school now, much less go to college. Unless of course your parents are willing to be your full time baby sitters and personal financial supporters. Or I guess you could marry into money, but then again not many guys are willing to take on a relationship that comes with a child included.

So for god's sake nail this jerks ass for child support, so at least you'll have some sort of income for the next 18 years, and perhaps that will make him think twice before doing this to someone else
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Old 06-20-02   #13
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This might come off a bit offensive but it is not ment to be.
X The Fallen X, if someone has the irresponsibility to go get pregnant, and I'm talking bout no birth control, then they need to deal with the ramifications. No, the baby should not be like a punishment, but if everytime there was an accidental birth, the mother went out and got an abortion, do you know how many people wouldnt b here? me for one.

Vamp, try and talk things out with your mom. A situation like this happened to a friend of mine (my stepmom) she was 16 and her boyfriend was 21, she got pregnant and talked to her mom. I think she will understand that you cant raise a baby without the father their.
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Old 06-20-02   #14
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She could always put it up for adoption...which would make sense, because Vamp, I'm sure you know that you aren't ready for this...and your baby will have a better life. It might hurt, but its the best thing for it.

And I did say before, that I can't think of much other use a 20+ year old would have with a 16 year old. Really watch yourself. I hope things turn out well with whatever you decide.
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Old 06-20-02   #15
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I can't tell you what you should do, but since I am your age and a female I can tell you what I would do. First, I don't see myself going out with a 23 year old, I just am not mature enough for that. So I can't really tell you anything about what you should do about the guy. My personal views are that a 23 year old guy just wants to get laid, but it's personal views nothing more. Now if I was going to have sex, the guy would have a condom on or I'd be on birth control. If he wanted you to go off the birth control and wouldn't use protection, he wasn't worth it. But your already past that. Now if I was going to have a kid, it would really depend on the guy if I would give it up or keep it. If I loved the guy and I was willing to change my life completly for him, and he felt the same way, and mine and his parents weren't completly opposed to it, I would proably keep it. The kid would be a symbol of true love. The likelyhood of you and this guy staying together before a kid is almost nothing, and with a child on the way, you truly have to think, is the guy the right person for you. He convinced you to get off birth control, and wouldn't use a condom, and who knows what else he will want you to do in the future, and what he might want the child to do.
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Old 06-20-02   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by DriWicked

X The Fallen X, if someone has the irresponsibility to go get pregnant, and I'm talking bout no birth control, then they need to deal with the ramifications.


That is nothing more than a personal opinion. Who is to decide that another person must suffer ramifications if there doesn't have to be any at all?

Sex is human nature and so is lust, which we all know clouds the mind quite a bit in some people. But what isn't human nature is the having to attend school for 12-20 years and working for a living, yet these are all things we must do to survive. All of which are damn near impossible for a young girl with a dependent. So, Why should the poor girl be punished for the rest of her life for succumbing to human instinct?

Quote:
No, the baby should not be like a punishment, but if everytime there was an accidental birth, the mother went out and got an abortion, do you know how many people wouldnt b here? me for one.
Two words... Over Population
This never ending population growth has a number of harmful effects. Among them are poverty, starvation, the systematic extinction of other species, and destruction of the environment. Studies have shown that high population density in cities leads to more crime, alienation and bitterness. The final result of this is inevitable, unless we do some serious thinking as a species and take some serious steps to prevent it from happening. We will eventually multiply until we have taken up ALL the space and used up ALL the natural resources, at which point we will no longer be able to continue existing. Continued population growth will ultimately spell the end of the human race. Large-scale colonization of other planets won't happen for decades or even centuries, and possibly never. By then it will be too late. We can't count on a miracle occurring. We must help ourselves now while we still have a choice in the matter.
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Old 06-20-02   #17
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Overpopulation is a problem in other parts of the world, not here in the US, and nor will it be. In the big picture, we shouldn't send food to places like India to help with the starvation...a population that has outgrown its food supply will dwindle until everything is back in check. That's what nature is supposed to let happen, and thats what we subvert when we allow more people to live and reproduce by send food over there. No, this isn't something we have to worry about.

She wouldn't be punished in that way if she'd put it up for adoption. If you ask me, this guy is probably an asshole (something we actually seem to agree on) and I think that whatever happens to him negatively from this, well, he deserves it. Tell your mom, let her deal with it however she will, and put the kid up for adoption.

Its obvious she wouldn't be able to take care of it, Fallen. There are other ways for a kid to live. And MAYBE it wouldn't like its life as an adopted kid. Or in general. But you have that same chance with any kid you have.
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Old 06-21-02   #18
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umm this is interesting.

um first of all, i know he isnt using me, we have been through way too much and this hapened to me before (the older guy using thing) and so i made him wait a long ass time before we even had oral sex (poor guyu) anyways i really love him, i sat him down and we had a chat, we found information on laws and we are going to propose we get married. (dont get mad) we were planning to get married when i was 18 anyways. so yeah but isat him down and told him i was really scared and that he needed to be here for me, cause i always would be for him. so we are cool now. i am only like 6 weeks so we have plenty of time to decide on something. well thanks for everything, and all of your advice, keep on talking if you want this is quite interesting, hey falen are those numbers really facts abbout the 9.99 percent and stuff?? just wondering thanks
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Old 06-21-02   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefinalw0rd
Overpopulation is a problem in other parts of the world, not here in the US, and nor will it be. In the big picture, we shouldn't send food to places like India to help with the starvation...a population that has outgrown its food supply will dwindle until everything is back in check. That's what nature is supposed to let happen, and thats what we subvert when we allow more people to live and reproduce by send food over there. No, this isn't something we have to worry about.
Obviously you haven't been to New York or here in my home, L.A. Yeah perhaps at the moment things aren't so bad, but you have to be able to see what lies in the future. I mean hell, here in Los Angeles, you can already see signs. The traffic is so horrid, that people shoot eachother on their way to work. And it just gets worse with each passing year, for ever birth the problem becomes more or a reality.

I mean, fuck, many religions preach that birth control is bad. I have no idea why. The Pope himself has been known to go to third world countries and tell them to "be fruitful and multiply." Not great advice for areas that are already suffering the effects of over-population through starvation, poverty and rampant disease. Nor is it good advice to preach against the use of condoms, which are the only thing we know of that can prevent the spread of AIDS through sexual intercourse. (In fact, one might question whether, by simultaneously preaching these two viewpoints, the Pope is trying to get these people to kill themselves off, but thats just another thing that floats in my head.)

Its true that many other parts of the world are stricken with poverty, starvation, and disease. The only reason the U.S. doesn’t experience these problems on a greater scale is because we have taken artificial measures to prevent it. For example, we have massive industries where we grow enough animals to feed all of the people in the country. (Did you ever stop to think how many chickens must die each year so that we can all have our chicken sandwiches, fried chicken, chicken pot pie, and Chicken McNuggets? There are well over two hundred million people in this country alone. It is probably safe to say that most of them eat chicken on almost a daily basis, or in the very least once a week. How many billions of chickens die each year to feed us?)

But even these artificial measures are only temporary. Eventually the industries will no longer be able to grow to support the continued population growth. The economy will implode under the weight of so many people.

Anyway... you are right, we both agree on the charater flaws of this disease of a man, I do hope for the worse for him. BUT what I can't see eye to eye on with you, or understand rather, is how you express disgust in abortion, but suggest cutting off food supplies to starving places around the globe, in the same breath. I mean how can an abortion be anyworse than letting a self aware child starve to death?
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Old 06-21-02   #20
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I dont think you should get an abortion. I agree if you dont want to keep your baby put it up for adoptoin. if you go through the right agency they let you meet the parents and stuff. I have been in the system so I know A thing or two. But anyways tell your mom. She will most likely be mad but in the end if u two are close she will suport u. I hope every thing goes well.

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