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Old 11-09-05   #1
Asher
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This thread is yet another reason why I will never take the opinions surrounding politics in this place seriously or with to any serious merit. Yet again, more misinformed, self-aggravating, ignorant opinions based on some shallow rage that you come up with on the spot (or shallow media-educated "history") and some "urgent" need to express your collective political xenophobia and disillusionment.... if you want to discuss politics or history for that matter, do your intellect a favor and do some research, collect some facts (not your double-click Google News) -- try a book maybe!? -- and then post that and then discuss that since at least those sources of information have been held up to SOME measure of scrutiny. How's that? Noooo -- this is Darkforum. Rage! Rage and laugh like your thoughts are well-grounded! Bleh.

For a good source of reliable data, refer to Douglas R. Holmes's book, "Integral Europe".. I think it was written sometime in 1997, published in 2000. It foresaw this and it even has some of your friendly racist faces in it...such as Monsieur Le Pen and even his good friend Beakon and Edmonds "the thug"..

It's only a 200 page book, if I recall correctly.. c'mon people, you can read a little 200 page book, can't you? For the sake of all the crap you read here, my humble opinion highly advocates that you do....

Last edited by Asher; 11-09-05 at 21:40.
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Old 11-09-05   #2
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So if the opinion isn't yours, you don't take it seriously?

Yeah, buddy. You're enlightened. Why don't you attempt your pseudo-intellectual posturing someplace else.
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Old 11-09-05   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
This thread is yet another reason why I will never take the opinions surrounding politics in this place seriously or with to any serious merit. Yet again, more misinformed, self-aggravating, ignorant opinions based on some shallow rage that you come up with on the spot (or shallow media-educated "history") and some "urgent" need to express your collective political xenophobia and disillusionment.... if you want to discuss politics or history for that matter, do your intellect a favor and do some research, collect some facts (not your double-click Google News) -- try a book maybe!? -- and then post that and then discuss that since at least those sources of information have been held up to SOME measure of scrutiny. How's that? Noooo -- this is Darkforum. Rage! Rage and laugh like your thoughts are well-grounded! Bleh.

For a good source of reliable data, refer to Douglas R. Holmes's book, "Integral Europe".. I think it was written sometime in 1997, published in 2000. It foresaw this and it even has some of your friendly racist faces in it...such as Monsieur Le Pen and even his good friend Beakon and Edmonds "the thug"..

It's only a 200 page book, if I recall correctly.. c'mon people, you can read a little 200 page book, can't you? For the sake of all the crap you read here, my humble opinion highly advocates that you do....
I take it since everyones opinions do not exactly match yours it makes them ignorant and shallow??? Yeah.... right.... have you taken a look outside lately????
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Old 11-09-05   #4
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And the guns come out...surprise, surprise..

A few things..

I didn't state MY opinion on this issue. If that wasn't clear, it is now. I stated a suggestion in hopes that the opinions that fly around here might have some actual backbone to them in the future so that more informed people might be able to discuss with others rather than unfounded, angry gibberish. Of course, ultimately, it's just another futile attempt and waste of energy on my part.. my bad.

Just because you have the right to an opinion doesn't mean you should put that right to use. Read the words as a suggestion for your own well-being. It has nothing to do with me being a 'pseudo-intellectual'.. if anything, I imparted the reference of Mr. Douglas Holmes, who is by trade, a pretty respectable political analyst, anthropologist, historian and scholor. Scholor is the key word here. And another key aspect of my above post is that I didn't state ANYTHING about MY knowledge/opinion on the matter.

If anything, I'd love to see any of you angry, loud-mouth, opinionated (uphold those civil rights people!) yahoos voice such stuff in a room full of educated people and see how they cut you down. Not me, I'm just another observer. Never claimed anything past that.

Hitler was amazing at twisting peoples words and philosophies and etc.. you people seem to be good at that kinda thing, too. Or incredibly dense/sensitive/insecure where every attempt at a suggestion to improve the level of conversation is viewed as an "attack" on your intellect rather than motivation to expand the threshold of your knowledge.
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Old 11-10-05   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
And the guns come out...surprise, surprise..
You attacked we replied what is so surprising?

Quote:
A few things..

I didn't state MY opinion on this issue. If that wasn't clear, it is now. I stated a suggestion in hopes that the opinions that fly around here might have some actual backbone to them in the future so that more informed people might be able to discuss with others rather than unfounded, angry gibberish. Of course, ultimately, it's just another futile attempt and waste of energy on my part.. my bad.
It seems that the debates around here have lots of backbone. This one does not--"Yet again, more misinformed, self-aggravating, ignorant opinions based on some shallow rage that you come up with on the spot (or shallow media-educated "history") and some "urgent" need to express your collective political xenophobia and disillusionment....""


Quote:
Just because you have the right to an opinion doesn't mean you should put that right to use.
Perhaps you should put your own advice to use. You advocate an educated opinion and yet seem to pose that you are the only one here educated enough to actually have a valid opinion.




Quote:
Read the words as a suggestion for your own well-being. It has nothing to do with me being a 'pseudo-intellectual'.. if anything, I imparted the reference of Mr. Douglas Holmes, who is by trade, a pretty respectable political analyst, anthropologist, historian and scholor. Scholor is the key word here. And another key aspect of my above post is that I didn't state ANYTHING about MY knowledge/opinion on the matter.
Ahhh. But you did Mr. Asher. You disregarded the entire notion of "thread topic" in order to attack the intellect of those who posted prior to you. A clear violation and flagrant disregard of the posted rules of this Forum and yet instead of a warning I would really like to know WHY you have done so and IF you have anything with "backbone" to add to the topic of this thread? You did post your knowledge and/or opinion of the posters of this thread and now attempt to deny this fact which is blatantly obvious to anyone with two eyes.



Quote:
If anything, I'd love to see any of you angry, loud-mouth, opinionated (uphold those civil rights people!) yahoos voice such stuff in a room full of educated people and see how they cut you down. Not me, I'm just another observer. Never claimed anything past that.
Another beautiful if convoluted insult designed to instigate negative reactions. I only wonder at your intent.

Quote:
Hitler was amazing at twisting peoples words and philosophies and etc.. you people seem to be good at that kinda thing, too. Or incredibly dense/sensitive/insecure where every attempt at a suggestion to improve the level of conversation is viewed as an "attack" on your intellect rather than motivation to expand the threshold of your knowledge.
Yes, an attack at a persons intellect and a direct attack against every poster within this thread is viewed as an attack. WOW!!

Now I will give you the chance to explain yourself in an adult manner with a civilized tongue.

If you just cannot contain yourself and do not want to do either that or adhere to the original topic of the thread may I suggest that you start your own thread for this topic or refrain from posting as I will be forced to either warn or delete your next post along with the rest of this off-topic tripe.

I will also ask that anyone reading Ashers replies please refrain from taking the bait until this matter is settled UNLESS you decide that you might have some adult and civilized idea as to why he might feel this way
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Old 11-10-05   #6
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Flex those nuts, Dyshade. You only make him look like the good guy.
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Old 11-10-05   #7
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I think Dyshade's got good points. He posted the same things I was already thinking.

He's just way nicer than me.
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Old 11-10-05   #8
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I talk with "flame" to you people because that's the tone that this particular website carries.

Don't play condescending to me, please. It's a nice little mask, but we all know the hostility just loves to fly around this place. Even with you. That's the nature of this place and that generally imposes itself on the way we end up talking to one another on here.

I didn't state any personal insight on the matter because:

It's not that I don't have the ability, it's that if I did, I'd be speaking in a different dialect/language than you people (Leftist or Right wing) because of the methodology that everyone seems to gather their info. Rather, the opinions on here are based on Google News clips that Someone reads on the Internet or sees on CNN/BBC/etc (not the most reliable source of information, don't you agree?) and then decides to parrot the information onto here where those media clippings become the fundamental block of the discussion. I mean, who doesn't watch these things on the news...why do I need this Someone to parrot this info to me??

And surprisingly (not!) it deteriorates into racist propaganda.... now.... this happens here ALL the time. Don't you think that's kind of ... stupid? I don't CARE if someone is racist, but don't you think that it gets a little stale when that seems to be the kinds of perceptions that this place can solely generate. Either that, or a few of the leftists here quickly jump on that person and say "oh, you suck, you're stupid, you dumb racist. Period." -- instead of taking some initiative (like I tried to by suggesting some solid material) to perhaps...improve this place?

There are many other sites that I can/do attend that are much more insightful to "Serious Discussion" ... insightful in that even people who are racists/right wing/etc are tolerated (like this place, which is fine and great, wouldn't want it any other way) but the arguements actually have more than the "pseudo-critical-analysis" that people do here... in the end, I'm just, I don't know -- surprised? -- at the fact that so many people here are so justified and happy to be Ignorant about their knowledge concerning world events.

For example:

- Riot occurs.
- Someone reads Internet news, watches TV news.
- Someone decides that what they see on the news is enough to formulate a valid opinion and the 'backbone' is based on years of watching the same kind of news.......
- Someone runs to a computer to type out formulated opinion.
- Someone is furthermore justified when other Someones who gather their information in the same way agree with them. Or disagreement fits in as well.

ie: "Damn racists!" (right wing)
"America, fuck yea!" (right wing)
"You people are stupid!" (left wing)
"Yeah, more stupid people, omg" (left wing)
----- typical pattern of a DF political conversation

- Semi-Informed Person comes along and decides to suggest that the Someone's should read "Book" with actual research and facts in them to gain a better understanding.
- Semi-Informed Person is ridiculed, called a 'pseudo-intellect' and whatnot. (Slander to make him/her look like their intent is to be all "High Order" over everyone) -- remember, I speak in tones that are reflective of DF. Don't "mature tone" me..my ass...
- Semi-Informed Person leaves the Someone's and goes back to his/her life of gathering OTHER INTELLECTS research to expand his/her understanding (no rampant opinion being spread, keep that in mind!)
- Someone's go back to their Google News clippings...
- The world goes round.

Now, great. I'm happy if your ignorance is bliss and you refuse to take up an open suggestion. I'm not here to label and judge any more than you people are. But, I am astounded when I see the refusal to expand one's knowledge because of....pride? You tell me.

Something like that. Has nothing to do with "not being able to agree".. you can't be that dense..

Edit:

I should add, the opinions I let out were in regards to the people on DF, NOT on the ISSUE OF THE RIOTS. Don't label X and call it Y. Yes, I insult the way you people converse here. Yes, I advocate that the thought-process/discussion process should be critisized. Yes, I realize that in the end, this is a website with "senior members with traditions and clicks" so that I'm ultimately going to get stomped on and ignored, but hey.. I had a few minutes to spare, so I thought I'd try to voice a new perspective on HOW to discuss, not WHAT to agree/disagree on.

Last edited by Asher; 11-10-05 at 10:35.
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Old 11-10-05   #9
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I have seperated this from th emain thread because it was off-topic and warned the member.

I have no problems with what you ar esaying Asher I just wish you had done so in a thread all its own. Please continue the conversation and when I have more time and can trouble myself to do it i will reply to your above posts
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Old 11-10-05   #10
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If you put as much effort explaining why you don't post, into your actual posting, you might be able to turn the arguments in a direction you want. As it is, you look like you're just trying to act smarter than everyone else, while offering no data to back it up.
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Old 11-10-05   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefr0g
If you put as much effort explaining why you don't post, into your actual posting, you might be able to turn the arguments in a direction you want. As it is, you look like you're just trying to act smarter than everyone else, while offering no data to back it up.
1. My above posts required next to no effort to post.
2. Perhaps my examplary behavior of not posting an opinion is an extended example of holding one's tongue in matters such as World Events rather than spouting off the first angry thought that my mind might think. I have an opinion, sure, but I know it's not important to say as much at this point in time concerning the issue of the riots in France. I do have the ability to impart facts though. What a concept, huh?
3. Just because this is the Internet doesn't mean that we should treat websites as Anger.com and say/post things that we probably wouldn't say in public.... or maybe we should treat it that way and furthermore never take anything seriously that is posted on the Net which means we should knock the "Serious" off the Discussion.
4. I am "smarter" than "you all" because I don't have opinions that are baseless. My opinions, when I actually DO open my mouth, usually entail other peoples' viewpoints/theories because in any intellectual community, people realize that there are biases and contradictions and such everywhere.

Again, I reiterate how this particular thread (which has now been marginalized as "attack on DFers intellect" masked under the guise of "Political Critique") is pretty useless as it is. There's no arguement on my part to make anymore because you people fail to recognize that I wasn't attacking the OPINIONS but the METHOD and while you humor yourselves and me by pretending to play fair and take everyone's opinion into consideration, I know that it's extremely conservative here in terms of what style you (the oldies/regs) like and you guys n' gals love hostility, (which really is useless in any sort of intellectual discussion -- just look at the U.N. squabble..) even in the Serious Discussion section.

How can anyone take anything seriously here when no one is objective in their opinions? That's my problem.
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Old 11-10-05   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
4. I am "smarter" than "you all" because I don't have opinions that are baseless. My opinions, when I actually DO open my mouth, usually entail other peoples' viewpoints/theories because in any intellectual community, people realize that there are biases and contradictions and such everywhere.
This is the part I have issue with. Where do you come up with the idea that our opinions are baseless?
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Old 11-10-05   #13
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Bear in mind the fact that I was targeting the Riots thread where, once again, a bunch of useless racial propaganda was being slung around the way monkeys fling poo. Why do monkey fling poo..? Well, honestly, I don't know. Maybe there's a cultural communicative connection there, but to my perception, it's about as useful as the racial 'poo flinging' that was proposed in that thread. Again, I have no problem with someone expressing their racial views, even if I disagree...my problem is that a one liner phrase that sums up a justified opinion taken from a Google News clipping hardly stands for a strong opinion. It's just....poo flinging.

Now, added to this, I don't think that a "pseudo-intellect", (as I've been dubbed) like myself (should I put on a crown and walk around in my bath robe holding the broom as my scepter?) should waste my valuable time on people that I think are incapable of formulating opinions with some sort of actual THEORY behind their words. In fact, all this effort on my part is expressing faith in your intellect but frustration at the lack of motivation. It is actually very peculiar to me how much effort people put into being so baseless and rampant about their opinions. But that's taking it too far, since as the French would say, ton plaisir n'est pas la mienne.

Then again, if I saw a Serious Discussion forum with mod (of all things) using a Political Thread merely to express his angry regressions, I'd probably go elsewhere as well.

Last edited by Asher; 11-10-05 at 20:44.
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Old 11-10-05   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
This thread is yet another reason why I will never take the opinions surrounding politics in this place seriously or with to any serious merit. Yet again, more misinformed, self-aggravating, ignorant opinions based on some shallow rage that you come up with on the spot (or shallow media-educated "history") and some "urgent" need to express your collective political xenophobia and disillusionment....
Did I miss something...

...didn't YOU start this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
if you want to discuss politics or history for that matter, do your intellect a favor and do some research, collect some facts (not your double-click Google News) -- try a book maybe!? -- and then post that and then discuss that since at least those sources of information have been held up to SOME measure of scrutiny. How's that? Noooo -- this is Darkforum. Rage! Rage and laugh like your thoughts are well-grounded! Bleh.
Although I have been participating in this forum for a shorter period of time than you have, it became clear to me early on that some of the folks around here make inflammatory remarks just to rabble rouse. I believe they are known as "Pot Stirrers" in web vernacular.

It's part of what I like about this joint.
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Old 11-10-05   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir
Did I miss something...

...didn't YOU start this thread?



Although I have been participating in this forum for a shorter period of time than you have, it became clear to me early on that some of the folks around here make inflammatory remarks just to rabble rouse. I believe they are known as "Pot Stirrers" in web vernacular.

It's part of what I like about this joint.
This thread was moved by Dyshade. It originated in the "Paris Riots" thread..

Well, hang around here for a year then....Pot Stirrers get boring pretty fast. It's kind of like having sex with the same girl week after week.

If anything, if that's the case with these Pot Stirrers, this forum shouldn't have a Serious Discussion area. Just throw politics into a sub-forum on the Bitch Board.
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Old 11-10-05   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
Bear in mind the fact that I was targeting the Riots thread where, once again, a bunch of useless racial propaganda was being slung around the way monkeys fling poo. Why do monkey fling poo..? Well, honestly, I don't know. Maybe there's a cultural communicative connection there, but to my perception, it's about as useful as the racial 'poo flinging' that was proposed in that thread. Again, I have no problem with someone expressing their racial views, even if I disagree...my problem is that a one liner phrase that sums up a justified opinion taken from a Google News clipping hardly stands for a strong opinion. It's just....poo flinging.

Now, added to this, I don't think that a "pseudo-intellect", (as I've been dubbed) like myself (should I put on a crown and walk around in my bath robe holding the broom as my scepter?) should waste my valuable time on people that I think are incapable of formulating opinions with some sort of actual THEORY behind their words. In fact, all this effort on my part is expressing faith in your intellect but frustration at the lack of motivation. It is actually very peculiar to me how much effort people put into being so baseless and rampant about their opinions. But that's taking it too far, since as the French would say, ton plaisir n'est pas la mienne.

Then again, if I saw a Serious Discussion forum with mod (of all things) using a Political Thread merely to express his angry regressions, I'd probably go elsewhere as well.

I didn't call you a pseudo-intellectual. I said you attempted pseudo-intellectual posturing on a forum that has more than one highly intelligent person. Your posts are more suited to the Bitch Board. It's obvious you have no intention of debating politics, just the methods used by other posters.
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Old 11-10-05   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher
This thread was moved by Dyshade. It originated in the "Paris Riots" thread..

Well, hang around here for a year then....Pot Stirrers get boring pretty fast. It's kind of like having sex with the same girl week after week.

If anything, if that's the case with these Pot Stirrers, this forum shouldn't have a Serious Discussion area. Just throw politics into a sub-forum on the Bitch Board.
No one forces you to stay, home skillet. One could argue you're doing a bit of pot-stirring, yourself.
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Old 11-10-05   #18
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From where I come from, (the discussion groups that I'm familiar with) discussing politics is all about method and ability to present fact/viewpoint with an objective view.
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Old 11-10-05   #19
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Politics aren't objective. You're almost forced to choose sides. There's no fence-riding.
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Old 11-10-05   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Lady
No one forces you to stay, home skillet. One could argue you're doing a bit of pot-stirring, yourself.
Like I said earlier...my attempts will be futile because of the conservative nature of this place. You're a reg/oldie of this place and regardless of your opinion on the Issue of Politics and the Methods of Debate, you choose to argue something that I am not talking about.

Lets try it this way: Explain to me how you feel/think about the methodology of how the discussion of politics takes place here. I'm curious to know as well if you've ever participated in discussion in a school setting or a conference or anything of the like...something public is what I'm getting at. Don't you think that the methodology (NOT the opinions) here is "unnacceptable" in comparison?
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