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Old 01-27-03   #1
Lillith
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If you had one wish....

....That would impact the world on a global scale, on a physical and spiritual level, what would it be? I do believe wishes can come true with intent and belief, that is in a very basic way in which magick manifests itself.

My wish would be possible and have far-reaching implications. It's an ideology and dream I have incubated for many years....

My dream is that the whole world would become vegetarian. I believe that would be the first step in raising the frequencies of consciousness. If man had respect for all of life and realized that we are all sentient beings, and there was no need for taking the life of another to simply feed a lust for flesh he could also have more respect for his fellow man. There would also then not be the need for goods made from animal skin and fur, the end of the meat industry would mean the end of this trade. It would instill the balance in Nature that our greed has infected and caused havoc in. When one realizes the value of that which is alive and is part of the Oneness of all we would be better equipped with caring for each other and promote the healing this world so desperately needs. When there is enough food for the hungry due to the extra land being available after the mass breeding of cows has ceased, there wouldn't be a need to keep fighting for more space to claim. When the violence we incur simply to feed our stomachs has stopped we may see the senselessness in killing another human being for the mere sake of "owning" a piece of Mother Earth, when she already shares herself naturally...

Nevermind what eating the flesh of an animal does to the aura, or what the implications of ingesting food that has been pumped with chemicals and antibiotics does to mental dispositions, seratonin levels and physical health in general. If we ingest something that has been brought to us through the means of violence and inhumane means we take those energies into our physical being and also our auric beings. An animal that dies with the sense of fear will give you that "gift" and this simply increases with each helping of meat one has.

We do not need meat, it's a fallacy, we do not need milk, that is a lie. The consumption of milk inhibits the body's ability to digest and process natural calcium found in vegetables, so in fact the end result is constant consumption of milk decreases bone mass through the years. Eastern diets where animal products such as milk is extremely low if not non-existent prove this; it's only in the West where osteoporosis is rampant.

That would be my one wish...
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Old 01-27-03   #2
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on the global vegetarianism...what would we do about all the over population of the animal kingdom...maybe i can find the statistics on how many deer starve to death in the winter that are not shot by hunters...but yeah, that's more humane than killing them quickly.
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Old 01-27-03   #3
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bad news for wolves and cougars if they were told all thay could eat was lettuce.
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Old 01-27-03   #4
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No I spoke of people, not of animals. Because nature has its cycles and this I know, I was speaking of the meat industry we human beings created.
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Old 01-27-03   #5
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About deer over population... There are millions of acres of land being used for raising cows... those acres of land came from areas that used to be wild life areas.. The Ecosystem was perfectly balanced till the farmers started killing off predators to stop them from killing their cows. That caused the unbalance in the ecosystem.

Now.. if everyone became vegetarian.. then there would be no use for those millions and millions of acres of cow land.. Nature will take over.. the predators will be back feeding on the excess deer.. the deer will feed on the forest.. and there will be no need for humans to shoot Bambis mom to keep from flooding the earth.

Its all connected.. Humans were never meant to eat meat.. thus our dull plant eating teeth..

Interfere with the ecosystem.. and the ecosystem will work to destroy you...

..

this all leads to another theory of mine about why humans are the only creatures that are able to interfere with the eco system.. but thats another thread.
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Old 01-27-03   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by gArGOyLe^^
About deer over population... There are millions of acres of land being used for raising cows... those acres of land came from areas that used to be wild life areas.. The Ecosystem was perfectly balanced till the farmers started killing off predators to stop them from killing their cows. That caused the unbalance in the ecosystem.

Now.. if everyone became vegetarian.. then there would be no use for those millions and millions of acres of cow land.. Nature will take over.. the predators will be back feeding on the excess deer.. the deer will feed on the forest.. and there will be no need for humans to shoot Bambis mom to keep from flooding the earth.

Its all connected.. Humans were never meant to eat meat.. thus our dull plant eating teeth..

Interfere with the ecosystem.. and the ecosystem will work to destroy you...

..

this all leads to another theory of mine about why humans are the only creatures that are able to interfere with the eco system.. but thats another thread.
Awesome post.... and exactly !!!
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Old 01-27-03   #7
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good point, but there are areas that have maybe three months of growing season, so the areas that had more favorable growing conditions could pick and choose the prices if say i wanted oranges one day...we rarely are able to grow oranges here in the north...would the world occupants want to spend their time harvesting? Is it realisticaly and financially possible?
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Old 01-27-03   #8
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but we also have pointy incisors.
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Old 01-28-03   #9
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My dream is that the whole world would become vegetarian I believe that would be the first step in raising the frequencies of consciousness. If man had respect for all of life and realized that we are all sentient beings there was no need for taking the Life

Umm... So they realize that plants are sentient too? And that there is no need to kill them as well?
BTW Plants are concious and alive right up to the point they either die of starvation or death by oven.. so I ask you which is more humane?


I think I would wish that people would stop lying to themselves and learn about what they actually are, and there enviroment.
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Old 01-28-03   #10
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Originally posted by Necropolis

Umm... So they realize that plants are sentient too? And that there is no need to kill them as well?
BTW Plants are concious and alive right up to the point they either die of starvation or death by oven.. so I ask you which is more humane?



"I do feel that spiritual progress does demand at some stage that we should cease to kill our fellow creatures for the satisfaction of our bodily wants."

-Ghandi

"I have no doubt that it is part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals."

-Thoreau


An estimated 134 million mammals and 3 billion birds are killed for food in America alone, and this is an outdated summery. Commercial slaughterhouses are akin to visions of hell. Screaming animals are stunned by hammer blows, electric shock, or concussion guns. They are then hoisted into the air by their feet while generally still alive, moving through the factories of death on mechanized conveyor systems. And then their throats are sliced and their flesh cut off...sometimes not even afforded the mercy of death before their flesh is sliced off. Cruel? Necessary? You decide... Chicken are kept in the most minute contraptions, their beaks permanently attached to a feeding tube, they are constantly being artificially impregnated to keep laying eggs, KFC are not allowed to be called "Kentucky Fried Chicken" anymore, because legally what they sell cannot be classified as chicken because of the constant enforced imprisonment and continuous artificially induced pregnancies resulting in, well mutant chicken. Cows are pumped with an overdose of artificial hormones to make their bodies believe they are in a constant state of pregnancy, udders swelling to bursting point. And if they do have babies, these are immediately taken away so that she may become pregnant again.

Now onto the constant argument that meat eaters throw at vegetarians... "but what about vegetables, you're killing them too"....

First of all, realize that grains, nuts and fruit require no killing, Mother Nature offers these to us, when a fruit has ripened it falls to the ground for instance. One cannot even begin to compare the nervous systems of those between animals and plants, clearly there is a difference between pulling a carrot from the ground and the slicing of a lamb's neck while it doesn't die immediately but lies there drowning in its own blood. But of course there are karmic implications for taking ALL life, those intended or not, as in stepping on small insects etc. That is why giving thanks for that which we are able to use to nurture and sustain ourselves with the least possible violence is so important.

Do you have a pet? A cat? A dog? Fish? Why not cook them up for dinner tonight!?

Last edited by Lillith; 01-28-03 at 09:24.
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Old 01-28-03   #11
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Originally posted by Jordyn
but we also have pointy incisors.

Meat Eaters:

-Has claws

-No skin pores, perspires through tongues

-Sharp front teeth for tearing, no flat molar teeth for grinding

-Intestinal track 3 times body length so rapidly decaying meat can pass out quickly

-Strong hydrochloric acid in their stomachs to digest meat.
========================================


Herbivores:

-No claws

-Perspires through the skin pores

-No sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars

-Intestinal tract 10-12 times body length

-Stomach acids 20 times less strong than meat-eaters.
========================================


Humans:

-No claws

-Perspires through the skin pores

-No sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars

-Intestinal tract 10-12 times body length

-Stomach acids 20 times less strong than meat-eaters.
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Old 01-28-03   #12
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Plants are sentient? How do you figure?
Quote:
Originally posted by gArGOyLe^^
Its all connected.. Humans were never meant to eat meat.. thus our dull plant eating teeth..
Canines are used to eat meat, they have just grown smaller over time out of constant use of tools to tear up meats.Chimpanzees do eat meat and we evolved from them and still havent given up the food group.



I`d wish for humanity to gain the desire to transend its limitations and remove its attachment to outdated concepts and fears.
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Old 01-28-03   #13
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Originally posted by RedMeat
Plants are sentient? How do you figure?
Canines are used to eat meat, they have just grown smaller over time out of constant use of tools to tear up meats.Chimpanzees do eat meat and we evolved from them and still havent given up the food group.



I`d wish for humanity to gain the desire to transend its limitations and remove its attachment to outdated concepts and fears.

Good wish... But if our "canines" have become dull from over-use why is it that all carnivores today still have sharp canines for tearing flesh?

Or did I misunderstand what you meant?
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Old 01-28-03   #14
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Our teeth havent become dull from their over use.Our teeth have become dull from over using tools to cut apart flesh rather than our own teeth.
Similar thing is happening now. With modern food preparation techniques our jaws are used less and are actually shrinking as they become less and less important to our survival.Just like the former evolutionary steps future generations might wind up with smaller jaws.
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Old 01-28-03   #15
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I still want to see some feasible arguements that global vegetarianism is a possibility...and then the fall out from making everyone convert regardless of how they are living their life now...like everything else shouldn't it be a personal choice, or are you anti abortion too?

Like any other ideal states, this is one desire that will remain a wish...
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Old 01-28-03   #16
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and i doubt some cherry barbs, a few guppies and a crazy goldfish are good eating.
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Old 01-28-03   #17
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Originally posted by Jordyn
I still want to see some feasible arguements that global vegetarianism is a possibility...and then the fall out from making everyone convert regardless of how they are living their life now...like everything else shouldn't it be a personal choice, or are you anti abortion too?

Like any other ideal states, this is one desire that will remain a wish...

As the thread's called "One wish"... This is my wish.... And basically, I believe anything is possible. And how my views on something like abortion fit into this seems hardly appropriate. Of course life is all about choice, hence I asked what people's wishes were. Everyone's wish here then could on some level infringe on another's personal choice. It is simply that I believe a great deal of the world's problems can be solved through becoming vegetarian. Like I said, that wish has far-reaching effects. On a physical level, eating meat is not healthy, personally to me, eating meat contradicts a sense and desire for spiritual evolvement... Note this is my opinion. I don't wish to repeat my entire first post, I think I stated it pretty clearly. I feel that promoting health would benefit mankind enormously, I feel that putting an end to the masses and masses of land being used to feed a small amount of cows whereas that exact same land could feed a 1000 people would greatly benefit the world. Why do you eat meat? Cause it tastes great? Think for a moment what meat does on a physical level, then think for a moment where that meat came from, then think of the millions and millions of $$$$ spent to get a certain amount of meat into your stores and onto your plates. Whereas the same amount could probably feed an entire 3rd world country with fresh produce. This wish encompasses economics, health, and spirituality. All to the benefit of man. Would you not become a vegetarian if you knew it could help this world.. help your fellow human beings and creatures alike?
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Old 01-28-03   #18
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Originally posted by Dyshade
Vegetarianism is a good wish...... yet I still like leather boots and cheese dammit... hehe....

look at the old Indian Tribes that lived in the US.... they grazed from herds of buffolo and used every piece that they got from it including the bones and intestines..... nowadays we do not do that.... we harvest what we need and throw the rest away.... which is bad practice... yet what do we need sharp pieces of bone for... we have steel sewing needles and forks and such.....
Though I do agree that in practice vegetarianism would do us good since we have overpopulated this planet..... thier are Herbivores, Carnivores, and Omnivores..... we happen to be Omnivores.... a combination of both..... we can subsist off of both groups of foods.... real herbivores are such as Horses, and cows.... cows have four stomachs to process thier grains and grasses they feed off of..... Omnivores are capable of surviving off of either food group.... take a cow and feed it flavored meat(grain or grass flavored) and it will slowly die from a pure meat diet..... well not too slowly....
where as humans can subsist off of meat for months.... though if we do go too long without veggies we can contract scurvy.....
We are primarily Omnivores..... we are kinda like Rats or mice in that instance.... we will eat anything that walks crawls or grows.....


*smiles* Exactly, I was going to mention the Native American aspect, and it's a brilliant example of respect for that which they used to sustain and clothe themselves with. It was also about survivial, which today meat consumption is not about at all. It's purely because people like it. I just think of the fact that if the world was entirely vegetarian (and psssst Dyshade I understand though I don't have a problem with organic dairy products, it's the way in which mass production of these products are extracted that disturbs me..) it would have such enormous implications, hunting for the sake of killing an animal for sport would seem insane, poaching would eventually become "extinct" and nature can with time and care return to her cycles and balance can be restored.
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Old 01-28-03   #19
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i guess you've never lived in an area with a three month growth period, high population of poverty level(less money for fresh fruits and vegetables, in additon to all the other supplementation for the vitamins and proteins only found in meats)It's not a cheap lifestyle, i did check into it, and it's financially not feasable for a family of four), and sometimes the only food is a 300 pounds of deer meat for a fifteen dollar liscence and the generosity of the community...Not all rules apply to all areas and i think this should be addressed in this idealized existance, which i'm still not convinced is feasible...but if you have proof...
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Old 01-28-03   #20
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What vitamins and proteins exist in meat? And a potato is more expensive than a piece of meat?
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