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Old 08-18-03   #121
Darling Apathy
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just because a couple people might think that, doesn't mean all of them do. I know some kids who's parent was gay or a dyke and they came out straight.
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Old 08-18-03   #122
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We have a house full of gay men living beneath us... it's awesome. It kind of sucks though because they're all drop dead gorgeous which is always the case in these parts. *sulks*

Wonderful people though, I haven't met a gay guy who wasn't a decent person yet to be honest. Haha, maybe I should get a sex change and then I too can have a hot boyfriend. lmao
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Old 08-18-03   #123
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that would be insane haha
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Old 08-18-03   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinistress
We have a house full of gay men living beneath us... it's awesome. It kind of sucks though because they're all drop dead gorgeous which is always the case in these parts. *sulks*

Wonderful people though, I haven't met a gay guy who wasn't a decent person yet to be honest. Haha, maybe I should get a sex change and then I too can have a hot boyfriend. lmao
I remember a girl I was friends with talking about how she saw two hot guys walking down the street holding hands and she thought: "What a waste of meat."
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Old 08-18-03   #125
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Personally i don't see why gay people would want to marry, isnt it a christian practise? Doesn't christiabity preach homosexuality is a sin? Fair enough they should have any rights a straight person has, i just don't understand why they would need a religious cerimony to feel secure, but if it makes them happy no-one has the right to tell them they can't get married.
Can't believe all you people saying its unfair of gay people to have children, there are so many unloved kids out there, it doesn't matter what sex their parents are, only that they are cared for, cuz its a lot more than some kids get even with straight parents?
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Old 08-18-03   #126
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Originally Posted by tomtom
Personally i don't see why gay people would want to marry, isnt it a christian practise? Doesn't christiabity preach homosexuality is a sin?

Weddings and marriages are not a Christian institution alone. That's a bit of a silly concept, for ancient civilizations have had marriage ceremonies long before Christianity tried to conquer the world. But yes, they (other cultures/religions) don't all wear white dresses and stand in a staindglass church and get blessed by some guy holding a black covered book.
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Old 08-18-03   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom
Personally i don't see why gay people would want to marry, isnt it a christian practise? Doesn't christiabity preach homosexuality is a sin? Fair enough they should have any rights a straight person has, i just don't understand why they would need a religious cerimony to feel secure, but if it makes them happy no-one has the right to tell them they can't get married.
Marriage as a practice came about due to evolutionary reasons, since monogamous relationships are the most successful in terms of raising heathly offspring to reproductive age. Marriage as an institution came about since moral and societal pressure helped ensure that the parents stayed together to raise their children. We are instintually monogamous. Therefore, we naturally take any measures to ensure that our partners do not break from us. Hence, marriage. Marriage is an oath that we ask of our partners in the hope that it will have a psychological effect by appealling to notions of honesty and loyalty compelling them to remain. These instincts, not suprisingly, are inherent in both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Only to whom they direct these instincts is different.
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Old 08-19-03   #128
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marriage is retarded.
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Old 08-19-03   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallantra
I've stated before, they are not able to get this everywhere. Do you have a clue about civil rights?
which is whyim personally in favor of creating a new kind of contract for couples. Gays can get a revised Civil Union valid in all states that grants them the same 1400 or so rights that a married couple has, only they have a civil union and NOT a marriage. This would take care of all that.. prsonally i have no problem with them being together like that and wanting to commit but i do have a problem with them using an instituiton of my forbares for a political agenda... i say keep marriage for men/women and create a newly revised civil union for gays and such and meet in the middle. Do you have a problem with meeting in the middle Dal? or do you just not care about stomping on my rights to desire to keep a portion of my culture untarnished for someones political goals?
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Old 08-19-03   #130
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i say keep marriage for men/women and create a newly revised civil union for gays and such and meet in the middle. Do you have a problem with meeting in the middle Dal?
Compromise is used to reach the highest possible utilitarian goals between two parties, not the highest moral ones. Gay marriage is decidedly a moral one.

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or do you just not care about stomping on my rights to desire to keep a portion of my culture untarnished for someones political goals?
You do not have the right to a word. Definitions of words are decided upon by society as a whole, and that include gay rights advocates (whether gay or straight themselves) as well as conservatives and religious right-wingers. Society's values are ever-changing; thus, language is ever-changing. Marriage is a concept, not an object. It's definition is contingent upon what our culture values about relationships.

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prsonally i have no problem with them being together like that and wanting to commit but i do have a problem with them using an instituiton of my forbares for a political agenda...
Most gays were the result of heterosexual marriages; so it's an institution of their forbears, as well. Heterosexuals have already drastically changed the meaning of marriage. Marriage, as I've said, resulted from the fact that monogamous couples were the most successful at raising offspring to a reproductive age. It is not some noble ideal that someone thought up, nor is it a divine ordainment. It is an evolved behavior. However, as civilized human beings, we've been able to reason beyond our instincts and build relationships for the purposes of our own happiness and satisfaction, not the mindless propagation of genes. In other words, marriage, as a modern concept, is foremost about love. And, since one can love someone of the same gender as strongly as one can of the opposite gender, any reasonable modern definition of marriage would include gay relationships.
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Old 09-03-03   #131
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patryn are you retarded man whats your problem with marriage and stuff! its the only way for the human race to procreate its species legally in this day and age!
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Old 09-03-03   #132
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how old are you?


first, there are many families that have had kids and aren't married. marriage is societal and has became a plague. all it is is a legal contract and something for girls too rush into giddily like prom. marriage isn't important. love is. if you think marriage is so great then maybe you ought to look at divorce statistics.
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Old 09-03-03   #133
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actually Patryn, mariage is 2 fold.. in one instant is is as you say a legal contract, in the other it is a religious ceremony that ties a couple together in the eyes of god and thier church... not only this its an announcement to society and thier friends that they are an exclusive couple. That may not be important to you, but its still important.
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Old 09-03-03   #134
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"Compromise is used to reach the highest possible utilitarian goals between two parties, not the highest moral ones. Gay marriage is decidedly a moral one."

Not true, were talking about 2 seperate issues, not gay marriage, but gay unions.

"You do not have the right to a word. Definitions of words are decided upon by society as a whole, and that include gay rights advocates (whether gay or straight themselves) as well as conservatives and religious right-wingers. Society's values are ever-changing; thus, language is ever-changing. Marriage is a concept, not an object. It's definition is contingent upon what our culture values about relationships."

Thats right, and this is why society is backlashing against homosexuals today for trying to encroach upon hetero territory, gay "marriage" today and a powerful NAMBLA tommorrow... they need to settle for the legal aspects of the union, they dont need the cultural and societal acceptance that real marriage gives, thats to be reserved for heteros.


"Most gays were the result of heterosexual marriages; so it's an institution of their forbears, as well. Heterosexuals have already drastically changed the meaning of marriage. Marriage, as I've said, resulted from the fact that monogamous couples were the most successful at raising offspring to a reproductive age. It is not some noble ideal that someone thought up, nor is it a divine ordainment. It is an evolved behavior. However, as civilized human beings, we've been able to reason beyond our instincts and build relationships for the purposes of our own happiness and satisfaction, not the mindless propagation of genes. In other words, marriage, as a modern concept, is foremost about love. And, since one can love someone of the same gender as strongly as one can of the opposite gender, any reasonable modern definition of marriage would include gay relationships."

Marruage has always been a religious as well as societal engagement. I dont know where you get this notion that it wasnt, because it always has been anbd always will be. They did add alot of law and order to it in the passed 100 years and all, but the core of it is that it is still a religious and societaal tying together of 2 people in the eyes of god and friends. Dont confuse that with the legal aspect that it also fullfills.

By the way if its only about love why cant brothers and sisters get married? how about man and a dog? what about two 12 year olds? Obviously marriage is reserved for a select group, namely of age, non related male/female couples. Also EVERYONE is the product of a hetero relationship in one form, as it takes 1 ma and 1 woman to create a life.

Now then, if homosexuals want the legal aspect of a union made more accessable i agree it should be, insurance, social security, hospital rights, etc etc however it will NOT be marriage, it will be civil union (implying legality) MARRIAGE will be for men and women.
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Old 09-03-03   #135
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important to you is what you mean. and tribunal. i'm not religous. my comment to it being just legal is that looking at divorce rates that is all it really is now. i'd have to be completely inept to not know what it stands for. i was raised christian also, like most US kids. in this day and age though, there isn't much to it except the wedding gifts and paperwork. numbers are numbers on that. abeit it is supposed to represent all the hoopla, it has mostly failed.
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Old 09-03-03   #136
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i guess id have to disagree, i think too many people look at it like you which is why it fails... if people looked at it a little more like they used to its probably be a bit better off, with lower divorce rates, but then looking at america, we're a country filled with assholes and morons... mostly the latter, 2/3s of the US cant even name 1 democrat candidate running for office right now..there fucking like 10 and they cant name 1? that tells you we live in a country full of fucking melon-heads, so im sure that also has something to do with the reaosn why divorce is so high... not to mention any country where you can meet a stranger in vegas and get married in under 15 minutes is no doubt going to have skewed numbers...
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Old 09-03-03   #137
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numbers are numbers, no matter how you look at them. i'm not telling you to not get married billy. i just find it useless. i don't need any of it to know my intentions and who i love. i don't need a ring to remind me or a priest to make it official in the eyes of whatever diety and the state thereof. and vegas marriages statisticly aren't going to cause a huge difference. much of what has made a bigger difference is the empowering of women. they don't just sit and take the bullshit anymore. they get out of it. and i know you have seen divorces from many people you wouldn't have expected. i come from your average middle class family. all my dad's friends play golf together. all the women are school teachers, etc. and i've seen quite a few of them divorce. so it isn't just your run of the mill idiots. not that this was what i even made the comment over. i made it because if you really love the person, then its just a ceremony. it isn't needed. i put my interest in the part that really matters. perhaps if the marriage advocates would do the same there would be less divorce.
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Old 09-03-03   #138
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i guess we just have to disagree then, marriage does actually help to keep couples together, although how could we find the records of non-wed parents who are cohabiting with children, im guessing those "relationships" end much faster, more often and easier.
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Old 09-03-03   #139
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i don't see marriage keeping couples together as much as children really. that seems to be the bigger basis on what keeps a couple together when things get really rocky.
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Old 09-03-03   #140
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again i disagree, i see alot of married couples that stay together for the marriage that dont have kids at all. Marriage is usually a vow to remain together thats what it does alot of times.. you dont just make a vow and then break it lightly.
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