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Old 08-06-03   #101
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Hey asd, are you saying that homosexuality and marriages between gay couples is accepted by the majority of mainstream Christian congregations? You didn't mention the Islamic take on homosexuality and marriage, what do you know?
Do you believe religion to be an institution open to change?
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Old 08-06-03   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixgun_Symphony
thats you, and youre entitled ot your opinion, however the vast majority of americans actually beleive its wrong and will not allow it. Even many democrats are against it.. if they want a civil union FINE im ALL for that! but to tread upon marriage and make it even MORE fucked up and less important than it already has become is not acceptable. I for one am GLAD that Bush is having them define marriage as a union between a man and a woman...

if they allow gay marriage

incestual, beastial, and polygamy are NOT far behind.
Fixed.
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Old 08-06-03   #103
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Hey asd, are you saying that homosexuality and marriages between gay couples is accepted by the majority of mainstream Christian congregations?
Not the majority, but nearly half, about seven of the fifteen most popular denominations, adopt quite a high level of acceptance of homosexuals and even homosexual practices. To make a correction, I didn't say marriage; none of the churches I mentioned perform marriage ceremonies, since gay marriage, obviously, isn't legal. However, the Metropolitan Community Church, the Unitarian Universalist Church, and the United Church of Christ all perform same-sex union ceremonies. Whether they'll begin performing marriage ceremonies for gays won't be known until such marriage is legal.

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You didn't mention the Islamic take on homosexuality and marriage, what do you know?
I didn't mention Islam, because I'm not very familiar with it. My general impression is that it's very disapproving of homosexuality. As to how individual sects feel on the matter, I do not know.

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Do you believe religion to be an institution open to change?
Of course, there are many instances of this occuring throughout history. Either a church establishment will change its dogma as a whole or it will section off into two or more churches. The mainstream Mormon Church for instance changed its stance on polygamy prohibiting it about a hundred years ago which is such a contentious issue even today that hundreds of different sects formed based on differing viewpoints on that issue.

Usually there are two motivations for religious institutions to change: the majority of its members have taken a different position on a single or multiple issues, or because popular culture has rendered a certain church archaic forcing it to consider change due to drops in membership or low standing in public opinion.
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Old 08-14-03   #104
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gay marriage

i think it should be made illegal and they should not be allowed to adopt cause i feel a marriage is defined as a man and a woman and not man with man or woman to woman! its just not moral or ethical and as i see is only it god created adam and eve not adam and steve or alice and eve! as it only right that a population to expand not die out completely as a world with only same sex populace would die out alot quicker then a population with heterosexual populace! Besides real love is when a man loves a women anyway all the gay can do is mimic what heterosexuals can do but they are in no condition to have kids

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Old 08-14-03   #105
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You think if gays can marry heterosexuals won't have babies anymore -- boy... get that logic!
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Old 08-14-03   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asd
Of course, there are many instances of this occuring throughout history. Either a church establishment will change its dogma as a whole or it will section off into two or more churches. The mainstream Mormon Church for instance changed its stance on polygamy prohibiting it about a hundred years ago which is such a contentious issue even today that hundreds of different sects formed based on differing viewpoints on that issue.

Usually there are two motivations for religious institutions to change: the majority of its members have taken a different position on a single or multiple issues, or because popular culture has rendered a certain church archaic forcing it to consider change due to drops in membership or low standing in public opinion.
Religion is basically spiritual politicing. If they just ditched all the dogma they disputed they would be left with the unwavering essence of their beliefs and all the religions of the world would probably be the same.
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Old 08-14-03   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaman
i think it should be made illegal and they should not be allowed to adopt cause i feel a marriage is defined as a man and a woman and not man with man or woman to woman! its just not moral or ethical and as i see is only it god created adam and eve not adam and steve or alice and eve! as it only right that a population to expand not die out completely as a world with only same sex populace would die out alot quicker then a population with heterosexual populace! Besides real love is when a man loves a women anyway all the gay can do is mimic what heterosexuals can do but they are in no condition to have kids
I can see the problem with adoption, but only because I know kids can be cruel and will bully a child from a same sex family - because it's 'different'.

The whole Adam and Eve thing imo is complete bullshit tho. We EVOLVED, and what's not to say that part of that evolution process won't include/accept gay marriage? I mean, same sex animals (dog's, cat's whatever) will go for it because they haven't been conditioned or restricted in their sexuality - it's nature.
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Old 08-14-03   #108
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I have a few points to make after reading these comments.

Marriage in this country is a legal contract, not a christian ideal. If you are christian, then yes, you have it in a church and follow standard christian practices. If you are not, you have it done by any ordained religious leader or government official allowed to do this.

I believe marriage signifies a love between two people, and a lifelong commitment to each other. It's purpose is NOT just to create babies.

Making same sex marriages illegal would be unconstitutional because it forces everyone to obey euro-christian ethics in this regard. If you are not christian (or a couple other homophobic religions), homosexuality is not a sin. Therefore it is within your religious right to marry your gay partner.

Marriage is a legal contract between two people. A government sponsered contract at that. Creating laws based upon christian ethics makes our country religiously intolerant, and the constitution was wriitten just to prevent that.

The only true problem that these same sex marriages might create, are people who are not gay but get married just to take advantage of tax breaks and etc.
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Old 08-14-03   #109
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monkey see monkey do

UHH ok if u all want to act like animals then thats your choice but as for me i refuse to accept the evolution theory as there is no credible truth as no one was there to see or record evolution as it happened and besides its just a theory u can argue that it happened and what i dont get it why do so many goths and people hang onto the lies of the enemy? evilution is nothing but pure crap to me as i find creation at least has order and balance and can explain alot more then your theory can ever could!
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Old 08-14-03   #110
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haha... and your bible explains it all so clearly, and with so much proof. In fact, proof simply drips off of it. How could we ever doubt some old book written by some guys who claimed to talk to god?

Oh yeah, maybe it's because there's about 2000 other religions that claim exactly the same thing. But they're all wrong, and you are the only right one.
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Old 08-14-03   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaman
UHH ok if u all want to act like animals then thats your choice but as for me i refuse to accept the evolution theory as there is no credible truth as no one was there to see or record evolution as it happened and besides its just a theory u can argue that it happened and what i dont get it why do so many goths and people hang onto the lies of the enemy? evilution is nothing but pure crap to me as i find creation at least has order and balance and can explain alot more then your theory can ever could!
Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC theory, the Bible could have been written by a lunatic! Granted - a clever one, and most profound. Is there any credible proof that Adam and Eve existed ecxept for a very nice novel?

Strangely, I am very spritual, in that I believe in an after life, and a higher being, but I don't believe that we need to follow a book to realise our spirituality.
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Old 08-14-03   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaman
UHH ok if u all want to act like animals then thats your choice but as for me i refuse to accept the evolution theory as there is no credible truth as no one was there to see or record evolution as it happened and besides its just a theory u can argue that it happened and what i dont get it why do so many goths and people hang onto the lies of the enemy? evilution is nothing but pure crap to me as i find creation at least has order and balance and can explain alot more then your theory can ever could!
Ok, now how a discussion about gay marriage turned into evolution vs. creation is beyond me but heres my take. Why is it that creationists and evolutionist refuse to accept that any single part of the other's theory is possible? The creationists say "the world was made in seven days." Where as the evolutionist say "it took hundereds of thousands of years" Well, if you look in the bible god plainly states that a thousand years is but a day to him. WELL, how bout you not take the 7 day thing so damn literally. If you believe the whole 7 day thing then why would you not attribute the thousand years is a day statement. Also, the creation story was written thousands of years ago when science wasn't exactly high tech. Did ceationists ever contemplate the moment of "let there be light" and the big bang evoloutionists talk about might be the same thing. WHY? because that would throw a monkey wrench into both camps beliefs. Science has no known cause of the "big bang" but still refuse to see the bible stories as anything but false. Maybe neither camp knows what the fuck happened but are to pig headed to just admit they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.
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Old 08-14-03   #113
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I really don't see the big deal. The main reason the gays want the legalization of marriage, is because of property in wills, and custody.

Many gays feel it is too easy for a partner to walk out on a relationship with kids. If the spouse dies, their partner doesn't get the kid, it goes to adoption, or another family member. Not to mention the amount of wills that are contested to prevent the gay "Widower" from getting what their lover wanted to leave them.

My country has legalized gay marriage, and I say to my government, way to go.
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Old 08-15-03   #114
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i think i've said something about this before. Gay marrige is legal in some places but not others.

Also, there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state. Marrige is a contract between two people, it doesn't have to be religous.

I refuse to get married regaurdless
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Old 08-15-03   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd
gay marriage is actually not as acceptable as any of those kinds because theyre all wrong. society still says gay is wrong, this is why something like 7 out of ever 10 americans are saying NO to gay marriage. it just wont eve rhappen.. i am ALL for civil unions for gays, if they want the same tax benefits and medical insurance benfiets and all that kind of stuff i say YES!! but when they are capible of getting that and they STILL press for gay MARRIAGE i as well as the rest of american stand up and say NO!

I've stated before, they are not able to get this everywhere. Do you have a clue about civil rights?
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Old 08-15-03   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaman
i think it should be made illegal and they should not be allowed to adopt cause i feel a marriage is defined as a man and a woman and not man with man or woman to woman! its just not moral or ethical and as i see is only it god created adam and eve not adam and steve or alice and eve! as it only right that a population to expand not die out completely as a world with only same sex populace would die out alot quicker then a population with heterosexual populace! Besides real love is when a man loves a women anyway all the gay can do is mimic what heterosexuals can do but they are in no condition to have kids
Physically, homosexuals are in no condition to have kids. Emotionally, Mentally, and Spiritually however I would have to say that more than likely there are quite a number of homosexuals out there who are in far better condition to have kids, than several hundred heterosexual couples.

I don't believe that whether or not making gay marriages illegal is going to change the percentage of gay people on this planet, so the subject at hand has little to do with how fast the human populace would go extinct. I truly do feel very sad for you that you have this idea that "real love is when a man loves a woman"

Real love comes in many many forms... Real love can be from a mother to her daughter, or her son, and likewise from a father to his child. Real love is the love a child has of their first pet... Real love goes a lot further than simply between man and woman. With your narrowminded viewpoint of what makes love "real" then a woman who is beaten daily and hospitalized regularly by an abusive husband, is experiencing more "real" love than two males who happen to have an affection for one another, cherish value and love one another as human beings, individuals, and respect each other. Love goes a lot further than the physical ability to bear children.

There was another post about how gays shouldn't be allowed to have children simply because they cannot physically bear them, and how it if they adopted it would "hurt" the child. If a child is taken out of their heterosexual parents house because the child is being abused regularly be it physically, sexually, emotionally, through neglect or whatever, I think the child would be much better off receiving the love and care that a homosexual couple would be willing to extend, than being placed in the care of the state in a group home where they experience no love at all.
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Old 08-17-03   #117
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Originally Posted by Kundalini
Physically, homosexuals are in no condition to have kids. Emotionally, Mentally, and Spiritually however I would have to say that more than likely there are quite a number of homosexuals out there who are in far better condition to have kids, than several hundred heterosexual couples.

I don't believe that whether or not making gay marriages illegal is going to change the percentage of gay people on this planet, so the subject at hand has little to do with how fast the human populace would go extinct. I truly do feel very sad for you that you have this idea that "real love is when a man loves a woman"

Real love comes in many many forms... Real love can be from a mother to her daughter, or her son, and likewise from a father to his child. Real love is the love a child has of their first pet... Real love goes a lot further than simply between man and woman. With your narrowminded viewpoint of what makes love "real" then a woman who is beaten daily and hospitalized regularly by an abusive husband, is experiencing more "real" love than two males who happen to have an affection for one another, cherish value and love one another as human beings, individuals, and respect each other. Love goes a lot further than the physical ability to bear children.

There was another post about how gays shouldn't be allowed to have children simply because they cannot physically bear them, and how it if they adopted it would "hurt" the child. If a child is taken out of their heterosexual parents house because the child is being abused regularly be it physically, sexually, emotionally, through neglect or whatever, I think the child would be much better off receiving the love and care that a homosexual couple would be willing to extend, than being placed in the care of the state in a group home where they experience no love at all.

Absolutely brilliant post, and I agree wholeheartedly.
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Old 08-17-03   #118
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As someone who's had many friends who had to get by in foster care, and grow up with the emotional scars caused by constantly shifting from one home to another without any real parents, and as someone who's also known people with gay parents (not adopted either, actually), I'd much rather see kids growing up with a gay couple that adopted them than shuffling from one fake family to another becasue some assholes obsessed with turning their own opinions into law decided that they wanted to get uptight about fucking semantics and what is or is not marriage.
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Old 08-17-03   #119
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Old 08-18-03   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veinglory
You think if gays can marry heterosexuals won't have babies anymore -- boy... get that logic!
So what it sounds like is that what these homophobes are really worried about is that if homosexuality becomes an accepted facet of our culture they won't be able to stop themselves from becoming homosexual?
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