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Old 08-31-17   #121
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Originally Posted by thefr0g View Post
"It took an omniscient boy, a lack of a real trial, and Littlefinger acting completely out of character to get Littlefinger killed in the end. Good job, D&D."

Yeah, that video is pretty spot-on, and is just making me angry all over again.

"Hi, I'm Rhaenys, this is my brother Aegon, and this is my other brother Aegon" - I LOLLED out loud at that.
Preston Jacobs is my go to source for complaining about GoT. I mean like I'm not just copying his complaints verbatim but they usually lay a good go-to groundwork for stuff that's dumb with the show.

Like I briefly doubted him on episode 5 because I thought maybe the show was starting to get good, but that was foolish optimism on my part.
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Old 08-31-17   #122
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Not to mention, Robin loved Littlefinger, and he's a pretty impulsive kid. He might hear about his cousins slitting his favorite uncle's throat after a laughable "trial" and decide to fuck up Winterfell for it. Or at least that's what would happen in old game of thrones world, where characters had depth and actions had consequences.

Yeeeeah. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous.

(I think it's also strongly implied that Littlefinger is his actual dad.)

But yeah. He could fuck up the North, given that you know, it was already demonstrated that his army is more than powerful enough to fuck up any plausible coalition of the scattered and war-torn Northern Houses. But yeah. The show has also decided that Dorne stopped existing when the Sand Snakes were killed/captured, and that the Reach never had that enormous army we were informed that they had, that defeated Stannis, that was keeping the Lannisters afloat during their alliance. The Stormlands also stopped existing for all intents and purposes and since the opening scene of S7E1 we haven't heard about the Riverlands or what the fuck is going on with Edmure Tully so uh yeah. I guess they spent years building up this fairly complex world and realized that it was easier to just ignore it and focus on bad action-fantasy cliches in the final seasons.

Like I mean there was no real point to Dany's entire Slaver's Bay arc except to keep her busy while the Westeros plot plodded on. Like she doesn't even recruit or draw forces from Mereen so why was it ever important that she capture it. The only thing she gets out of the years spent on Slaver's Bay is the Unsullied, which were 1) The first thing she got, and 2) Could have easily just been more Dothraki, since the only point of the Unsullied was that they wouldn't rape and pillage and kill on their own the way the Dothraki would, but then she brought over 80k Dothraki anyway so nevermind.
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Old 08-31-17   #123
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There is some sort of connection were aren't seeing between the 3 eyed raven and the night king, technically they get their power from the same source. I sense a palantir kind of explanation forthcoming with a lovecraftian great other twist thrown in.
The theory that was floating around before the season that I mostly bought into was that the Children of the Forest were the real big bads and the Night King was still their servant, and that the mark Bran got was what was going to break the magic of the Wall and let them march through.

But then that didn't happen. Instead the Night King's entire plan was apparently just wait for someone to give him a dragon.

I feel like this is just desperate/lazy show-writer bullshitting at this point and I guess there will be a more satisfying plot if the rest of the books ever come out, but at this point I am not optimistic about the mystical stuff ever being explained in any comprehensive and coherent way. I mean how can they with only six episodes left anyway? They haven't even laid a proper foundation to explain how magical stuff works here so clearly we're just going to get more hand-waves.
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Old 08-31-17   #124
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I watched season one and gave up. The books are much more entertaining. And now they are just making stuff up.
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Old 08-31-17   #125
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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
Like I mean there was no real point to Dany's entire Slaver's Bay arc except to keep her busy while the Westeros plot plodded on. Like she doesn't even recruit or draw forces from Mereen so why was it ever important that she capture it. The only thing she gets out of the years spent on Slaver's Bay is the Unsullied, which were 1) The first thing she got, and 2) Could have easily just been more Dothraki, since the only point of the Unsullied was that they wouldn't rape and pillage and kill on their own the way the Dothraki would, but then she brought over 80k Dothraki anyway so nevermind.
I think it was to "prepare" her to be a leader in Westeros, however she comes to Westeros and immediately wants to set the entire kingdom on fire. Only Tyrion and Varys hold her back, which at this point... why? If you have to constantly keep telling your sovereign NOT to burn everyone who doesn't like her, maybe she isn't the right choice anymore?

The first six seasons of character progression for Dany and Jon was to show them growing and learning from their experiences. Now here they are in Season 7, Dany is still burning her enemies and Jon is still saying dumbass shit in the name of honor and oaths. Apparently they haven't learned dick. Then again, I guess it is all going to come down to sword fights and dragonfire in the end, and actual good character building isn't going to matter for shit.

Fuck it, now that Littlefinger is out of the game, I'm backing Team Zombie Mountain for the Iron Throne. At least the point of his character is to not have any personality.
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Old 08-31-17   #126
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I watched season one and gave up. The books are much more entertaining. And now they are just making stuff up.
That's kind of what every show does... just make stuff up. It's called "writing".
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Old 08-31-17   #127
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Okay I'm going to be really subversive and just say it.

I found the books to be boring. Sure, I plodded through, and there were points where I was utterly gripped. But generally speaking, too many words. I don't need an entire chapter devoted to wtf Fat Sam is up to on a ship. And god help me when it comes to Bran being Bran. I couldn't give a shit. It didn't "paint a picture" or set anything up for me. It was just boring. George RR Martin is the fantasy equivalent of Steinbeck. Highly regarded by the general populace, makes me want to slice off my nipples when I read 30 pages discussing the yellow hue of a corn field. Or ice field, as it were.

I like my fantasy filled with absurd laws, stupid character names, sword fights, dragons, the occasional magical spell, and plot holes galore. When people try and do "smart" fantasy, it really burns my balls.
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Old 08-31-17   #128
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That's kind of what every show does... just make stuff up. It's called "writing".

http://www.theonion.com/article/game...-beyond--56757
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Old 08-31-17   #129
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I found GRRM's writing styled to be stilted and boring. I enjoyed the seasons of the show where D&D were editors more than writers, and hacked the world down into a manageable size. Most of the complaints I heard from book-readers for the first four reasons were really dumb and almost always sounded like an actual improvement.

That was the strong team: GRRM for source material, D&D for editing.

Now it's almost flipped, and D&D are having to create the plot themselves with only vague direction from GRRM and it's shit.
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Old 08-31-17   #130
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I'm fine with the show not staying true to the source material. I mean, I was really really sad that they cut out Strong Belwas, as he was my favorite book character, but whatever, it happens. That being said, when D&D ran out of books to take from, the quality of the show dropped way off. Just be true to the fucking world you built, that's all I ask. Any 16 year old Dungeon Master knows this shit. If you've established that "He who passes the sentence should swing the blade" then make her swing the fucking blade.
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Old 08-31-17   #131
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000063

That would have helped it make a little more sense, still not a satisfying scene by a long shot.
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Old 08-31-17   #132
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Apparently there was supposed to be a plot of LF trying to kill Bran.

Honestly him killing Bran would have been better, it would have been an actually impactful death. I actually would have laughed and loved it if the whole thing about Jon being "rightful heir" just never mattered after all because no one is around to exposit it.

But the show has been leaning more and more on dumb fantasy cliches so I guess we need the exposition tool.

I imagine they cut that scene because they realized that viewers would start asking why they don't use the Brantron9000 to just solve all of their problems with his omniscience. They only want him to reveal certain things and not others to create the bullshit unearned and inorganic illusion of tension.
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Old 08-31-17   #133
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Apparently there was supposed to be a plot of LF trying to kill Bran.

Honestly him killing Bran would have been better, it would have been an actually impactful death. I actually would have laughed and loved it if the whole thing about Jon being "rightful heir" just never mattered after all because no one is around to exposit it.

But the show has been leaning more and more on dumb fantasy cliches so I guess we need the exposition tool.

I imagine they cut that scene because they realized that viewers would start asking why they don't use the Brantron9000 to just solve all of their problems with his omniscience. They only want him to reveal certain things and not others to create the bullshit unearned and inorganic illusion of tension.
BTW I feel like it was stated in the show, and I know it was in the books, but Meera Reed's father (Howland? Something like that) was with Ned at the tower of Joy. So there is an actual witness. Now maybe all he saw was Ned coming out of the tower with a baby, but that's still pretty good evidence.
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Old 09-01-17   #134
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BTW I feel like it was stated in the show, and I know it was in the books, but Meera Reed's father (Howland? Something like that) was with Ned at the tower of Joy. So there is an actual witness. Now maybe all he saw was Ned coming out of the tower with a baby, but that's still pretty good evidence.
Yeah but I mean they have six episodes left so I bet this just doesn't come up at all.

Like btw I know I am shitting all over the show and D&D but I do recognize that some problems aren't their fault. Like I do blame GRRM for being a lazy indecisive shit (even while I deeply empathize with those traits) for not getting even one fucking book done in all this time, and I do blame HBO for being cheap skates and forcing them to compact the seasons to get out of paying a lot of money to the major actors under the new contract agreements. Like I know they said they could do the show in only 13 episodes but that's clearly bullshit. Like the fucking adventure beyond the Wall with the A-Team was a joke mainly because it was one episode. And I was even excited about that. But it really needed to end one episode with them trapped on the island and Gendry running and collapsing maybe and then from that cliffhanger we get to the eventual rescue while they're trapped and having their conversations while taking turns breaking up the ice with the warhammer, and we convey the monotony and peril and also maybe they end up having to eat some of Thoros because Alliser Thorne was right about everything.

Also all of the military events needed to be stretched out to not look ridiculous.

This season really clearly needed to be ten episodes. It wouldn't have fixed everything or even most of the problems, but it would have fixed like 25% of them. And then they have time for the Winterfell plot to not feel as completely stupid, rushed and sudden.
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Old 09-01-17   #135
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It would have definitely given it more weight. The constant fast travelling made the world feel so small and inconsequential. Part of the tension of the early seasons was knowing how far apart all the Starks were separated, because Westeros had distance. This season a raven can fly 1000 miles in an act break. However, they still use it the other direction as well. It takes Arya 2 episodes to get from The Twins to Winterfell, and it takes the Brotherhood like 4 episodes from when The Hound sees his vision in the fire, to when they are discovered at Eastwatch.
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Old 09-01-17   #136
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Yeah too rich for my blood. I fold. Talking about TV in a critical manner hurts me deeply. I love TV. It never leaves me for greener pastures. It never forget I exist. It's always there.

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Old 09-02-17   #137
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I think that JMS from Babylon 5 has a good explanation - All things move at the speed of plot

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Old 09-02-17   #138
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Originally Posted by thefr0g View Post
That's kind of what every show does... just make stuff up. It's called "writing".
Absolutely, in this case the source material is better. Some parts boring, some parts very vivid. Yet better, at least from what I saw.

I gave up on the books as well with the last one. Very anticlimactic, seems like George had a fantastic idea, the first few books are very good, and it pittered out because he ran out of good notions. He does not write with a schematic in mind so that may be his problem.
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Old 09-02-17   #139
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Absolutely, in this case the source material is better. Some parts boring, some parts very vivid. Yet better, at least from what I saw.

I gave up on the books as well with the last one. Very anticlimactic, seems like George had a fantastic idea, the first few books are very good, and it pittered out because he ran out of good notions. He does not write with a schematic in mind so that may be his problem.
Sounds like you're loaded with advice for him!
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Old 09-02-17   #140
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Sounds like you're loaded with advice for him!
Not at all.... he said in an interview that he does not write with any specific template in mind. He does not use outlines. A lot of authors produce an outline so they have a good idea where their story is going. He does not. Authors mostly start with a tree and write in the leaves, Martin just pops a seed in the ground and watches it grow almost of its own accord.
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