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Old 07-31-17   #21
Wicked Lady
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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
I am also legitimately flattered you would read my wall of text tho. That's true friendship right there.
I take care of my bitches.

But on a more serious note, I tend to be quite old school about this kind of thing. As in I actually read what you people write, even if it's more than 140 characters.
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Old 07-31-17   #22
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One pesky problem commies can never figure out. Prices. How do we determine prices for things, since centrally controlled economic theory is exceptionally short sighted and always leads to huge bubbles and bust cycles, how do you reintroduce price discovery into this zombie economic theory?

Unless you plan to do away with all private pricing and money, in which case, we would be so beyond whats sustainable in terms of how we interact with one and other economically, it could only exist with top down pressure by the required dictators at the top playing whack a mole with what would seem like the billions of issues that would be popping up. And by issues of course I mean human nature, black markets, the desire not to be ruled by some piece of shit who thinks he knows whats best for everyone else while never having to exist in their position.
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Old 07-31-17   #23
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Old 08-01-17   #24
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Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd View Post
One pesky problem commies can never figure out. Prices. How do we determine prices for things, since centrally controlled economic theory is exceptionally short sighted and always leads to huge bubbles and bust cycles, how do you reintroduce price discovery into this zombie economic theory?

Unless you plan to do away with all private pricing and money, in which case, we would be so beyond whats sustainable in terms of how we interact with one and other economically, it could only exist with top down pressure by the required dictators at the top playing whack a mole with what would seem like the billions of issues that would be popping up. And by issues of course I mean human nature, black markets, the desire not to be ruled by some piece of shit who thinks he knows whats best for everyone else while never having to exist in their position.
This is all pretty totally wrong in ways that are obvious and/or for reasons I already addressed itt.

If anyone other than Billy finds any of this compelling, please let me know and I'll address it separately.
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Old 08-01-17   #25
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When your Russian for food there is no time for Stalin.
Well, that's one way of Putin it.
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Old 08-01-17   #26
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This is all pretty totally wrong in ways that are obvious and/or for reasons I already addressed itt.

If anyone other than Billy finds any of this compelling, please let me know and I'll address it separately.
Was that your actual rejoinder?
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Old 08-02-17   #27
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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
This is all pretty totally wrong in ways that are obvious and/or for reasons I already addressed itt.

If anyone other than Billy finds any of this compelling, please let me know and I'll address it separately.
I wouldn't mind you re-addressing Billy's questions.

In a bubble, communism seems fine, just like capitalism, and anarchism, and any other ism. But reality gets in the way.
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Old 08-02-17   #28
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One would think, that being in "school" your entire life would make you able to answer some pretty basic economic questions especially if you were going to be preaching about a moral-economic system thats already murdered more than any other ism ever.
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Old 08-02-17   #29
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Old 08-02-17   #30
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I wouldn't mind you re-addressing Billy's questions.

In a bubble, communism seems fine, just like capitalism, and anarchism, and any other ism. But reality gets in the way.
I assumed you would be specifying a particular point.

But you've said this same basic argument before and I think I already addressed it, so I'm not sure where the breakdown in communication is.

I do not think that communism is unrealistic; I think expecting capitalism to continue to function into the future, despite all the problems we're seeing arising from it around the globe and despite massive strides in technology that undercut or even reverse its rationales for existence, is unrealistic.
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Old 08-03-17   #31
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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
I assumed you would be specifying a particular point.

But you've said this same basic argument before and I think I already addressed it, so I'm not sure where the breakdown in communication is.

I do not think that communism is unrealistic; I think expecting capitalism to continue to function into the future, despite all the problems we're seeing arising from it around the globe and despite massive strides in technology that undercut or even reverse its rationales for existence, is unrealistic.
The specific point was about price discovery. In a centrally controlled economy, there is no organic price discovery, which leads to huge fluctuations in the markets. 2008 housing bust was a prime example. Income requirements, low interest cheap loans (free money) etc skewed the price discovery of hosing which lead to a Boom Bust that nearly put the entire planet into an economic apocalypse. Were doing the printing money thing now, to hold it at bay, but it is coming... all because of inorganic price discovery spured by centrally controlled Keynesian economic mistakes.

So the question is how do you solve that in communism? How do you know what a cart of turnips is worth if the market is centrally controlled? Or were you saying we wont have private trade at all under communism?
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Old 08-03-17   #32
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But you've said this same basic argument before and I think I already addressed it, so I'm not sure where the breakdown in communication is.

First point is not an argument.

and in answer to the 2nd point, right here, your most recent post and non answers are where the communication is breaking down.
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Old 08-03-17   #33
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Billy, I'll be frank for a minute.

You disgust me. The nausea inspired by interacting with you for a few posts back earlier this year were why I disappeared for five or six months. I amn't putting you on ignore, but I don't really plan on engaging with you very often for my own mental health and happiness. And when necessary I'd much rather do it indirectly.

So like, let fr0g tell me what he actually wants to hear me respond to himself because I really just don't care what you think about anything.
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Old 08-03-17   #34
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Hahaha, part of me wanted to read your response, but another other part of me liked this response much better.
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Old 08-03-17   #35
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The main point of Billy's that I was speaking of was him asking about how a communist society would deal with all the issues that would inevitably crop up, the two he listed being human nature and black markets. There would almost certainly be black markets, which would require heavy law enforcement to stop, which would lead to oppression, etc.

I'm totally with you on the idea of technology outpacing capitalism, not 100% sure that I agree, but I understand the point. What I don't understand is how communism is the solution. Personally I think the solution lies somewhere in the middle. I've come around on the idea that providing society with a substantial social safety net allows it to flourish and take risks that we otherwise may not, however I still believe that the motivation behind those risks will be self improvement, not necessarily the betterment of the world.
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Old 08-03-17   #36
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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
Billy, I'll be frank for a minute.

You disgust me. The nausea inspired by interacting with you for a few posts back earlier this year were why I disappeared for five or six months. I amn't putting you on ignore, but I don't really plan on engaging with you very often for my own mental health and happiness. And when necessary I'd much rather do it indirectly.

So like, let fr0g tell me what he actually wants to hear me respond to himself because I really just don't care what you think about anything.
Thats cool. You disgust me too, still doesnt explain how you plan to achieve price discovery in your little antifa genderqueer clique you got going on though. Its kind of awe inspiring how you can not care what I think in 1 breath, then run away for 6 months because the redpills were killing your buzz.
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Old 08-03-17   #37
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HA! Get cucked, snowflake! (am I doing it right?)
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Old 08-03-17   #38
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HA! Get cucked, snowflake! (am I doing it right?)
Close. You got the zingers, but aren't really driving home how he is a cuck.
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Old 08-03-17   #39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clu16m_FWgY

this video of Jim Acosta taking it in the pooper RE: muh statue of liberty means open borders fantasy, reminded me of you guys <3 see how subtle alt right culture creep is happening? Its everywhere now, its amazing.
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Old 08-03-17   #40
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The main point of Billy's that I was speaking of was him asking about how a communist society would deal with all the issues that would inevitably crop up, the two he listed being human nature and black markets. There would almost certainly be black markets, which would require heavy law enforcement to stop, which would lead to oppression, etc.

I'm totally with you on the idea of technology outpacing capitalism, not 100% sure that I agree, but I understand the point. What I don't understand is how communism is the solution. Personally I think the solution lies somewhere in the middle. I've come around on the idea that providing society with a substantial social safety net allows it to flourish and take risks that we otherwise may not, however I still believe that the motivation behind those risks will be self improvement, not necessarily the betterment of the world.
Well "human nature" is a vague point and actually is kind of the underlying rationale for communism. Primitive communism, egalitarian hunter-gatherer societies, is actually what Marx and other communist theorists based a lot of their conclusions on. Human beings are actually set up to be cooperative, not competitive. We are herd animals. When you look into what motivates people, what actually motives people, it's overwhelmingly about group approval and accolades, not about personal profit. People live and die for the tribe.

To the extent I think this line of criticism has validity it's that there is somewhat of a challenge in getting people to accept a singular, universal tribe/brotherhood of mankind kind of deal, but that's also actually not super necessary when you're talking about governance happening primarily at the local, strictly communal level anyway.

As to the black market thing it doesn't make sense as a question to me and it implies you're still thinking of a Leninist party-state with a centrally managed, state capitalist economy, which is not the sort of communism I am talking about.

Relevant Youtube viewing if interested:

Alpha Males Don't Exist

The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us

However, I do think UBI is a good first step on the path towards realized global communism. It at least destroys the exploitative wage-slavery basis of modern capitalism, and moves a lot of power back to labor's hands. Assuming at a livable and decent level, some form of guaranteed basic income would be a good first step forward to start thinking about and looking at what comes next while minimizing immediate suffering under capitalism.
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