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Reload this Page How long must I wait??????
View Poll Results: How long until the world as we know it ends?
Pretty soon... like a few minutes at most... 0 0%
Give it 10-20 years... it might happen 5 38.46%
Dont hold your breath... it will be a few million.. 5 38.46%
The world will never end... not on my watch... 3 23.08%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-06-02   #21
doebathory
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Originally posted by Billy the Kidd
Probably..but then again there has never been a time that human kind as we are today wasnt able to use tools or technology. Its synonomous with humanity..our ingenity is anyways i mean. But im sure if we evolved differntly and we never had technology as it is we would be very differnt in the sense that we would have primitive and natural instincs like animals do, we would probably also have claws for slashing and better legs for running. And as Humans are social creautres i think we would still be at the top of the food chain...look at wolves they hunt together and im sure human kind would too even without out technology we could survive better than anything else..i mean shit the icemen used to bring down mammoths.
human beings are, i think, very much like wolves in some ways. if you watch nature programs, watch the ones about wolves. a wolf pack will shun a wolf the wrong colour, too big or too small, or with physical imperfections that would make it a liability in day to day living. itís pack logic, not liking anything too different. millions of years ago, this sort of selective picking kept the dinosaur gene pool healthy by excluding any creature who was too anything. however, we've evolved a mind that can find even more reasons to shun others of our species, abstracts such as religion and language, place of birth, attractiveness or the lack thereof. though our instinctual abhorrence of physical qualities such as colour and disability is still pathetically evident in many people, it has become more demeaning than simply a case of keeping the gene pool pure as would be an animal's simplistic motivation. caste and class systems, allocated due to birthright, wealth, education etc. have replaced the simple notion of 'pecking order' which relies on the 'survival of the fittest' ideal. we can think of so many reasons why someone else is 'less' than us and a myriad of degradations to exercise to elaborate on and justify these prejudices. we have expanded on 'survival of the fittest' to the point where it vanishes without a trace beneath a frighteningly single-minded idiom. 'survival of humans: elimination of anything in our way'.
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Old 03-06-02   #22
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human beings are, i think, very much like wolves in some ways. if you watch nature programs, watch the ones about wolves. a wolf pack will shun a wolf the wrong colour, too big or too small, or with physical imperfections that would make it a liability in day to day living. itís pack logic, not liking anything too different. millions of years ago, this sort of selective picking kept the dinosaur gene pool healthy by excluding any creature who was too anything. however, we've evolved a mind that can find even more reasons to shun others of our species, abstracts such as religion and language, place of birth, attractiveness or the lack thereof. though our instinctual abhorrence of physical qualities such as colour and disability is still pathetically evident in many people, it has become more demeaning than simply a case of keeping the gene pool pure as would be an animal's simplistic motivation. caste and class systems, allocated due to birthright, wealth, education etc. have replaced the simple notion of 'pecking order' which relies on the 'survival of the fittest' ideal. we can think of so many reasons why someone else is 'less' than us and a myriad of degradations to exercise to elaborate on and justify these prejudices. we have expanded on 'survival of the fittest' to the point where it vanishes without a trace beneath a frighteningly single-minded idiom. 'survival of humans: elimination of anything in our way'.
i think youre mistaking human greed for human survival.. we want to expand which is when the kill everything in the way..but not to survive. But like i said before...if i had to choose between mankind and animals id choose mankind. Because we are more advanced and because we can appreciate life more than an animal ever would. Sure we do do things that are bad too like blowing up pieces of what we love and appreciate..but..thats not like were doing it for the hell of it usually theres other humans there we dont like
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Old 03-06-02   #23
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Originally posted by Billy the Kidd

I think i am going ot have to disagree with that..Most people only see the bad things that happen and neglect the good. Mankind is a special creation we are like half animal and half divine...we have the physical needs of animals and yet we can reason and feel and think and rationalize..we have concepts of good and bad and right and wrong. So its only natural that we be made of 2 thoughts good and bad, the yin and yang, we are all evil while being good. thats the way we are built. Sure there are people doing mass genocide and making nuclear weapons..but theres also people who dedicate thier lives to helping others, and who give to charity and even the idea of someone picking a bum up in a cold city to take him to a diner to eat and giving him a few bucks is somthing that humans do. We are soooo complex. we are ultimate example of yin and yang, light and darkness within each of us. Its a part of our divinity. I think we were meant to do what we do, if we werent then we wouldnt be doing it. but then there are slight mistakes as well....serial killers are correct me if im wrong always insane in one form or anoother. now thats not really natures fault...thats more a matter of incedent..maybe something went wrong somewhere along the lines to damage that infant to make it what it was. And i think that if you look at history most leaders who did the genocides were a little bit baked in the head. But that doesnt mean that we arent doing exactly what we were intedned to. Think about it like this, quote from Legend by Ridly Scott."What is light without dark? It is a part of you all, you will never completely defeat it(dark) we are(dark and light) Brothers eternal" I think that that quote says alot about the duality of mankind... think about it.
well, while most of what you said goes to emphasise my point in the very first line of my reply - that as individuals we can appreciate, it is as a species that we cause the demise of our environment, i would disagree with your statement about yin and yang because although we do all possess good and bad, the dark is out of proportion to the light. you are also assuming that conscious thought is automatically superior and preferable to the alternative which cannot be so; it is not a fact but a matter of opinion.
it is also erroneous to assume that - ie. serial killers and leaders that promote and commit genocide - someone who chooses to go against what 'society' considers morally right is necessarily insane. yes, the primary and secondary socialisation of an individual can cause deviant behaviour, as can forms of sociopathy in which case the individual can know what is considered 'right' and 'wrong' and what manner of behaviour is acceptable and what is inappropriate but be desirous of going against these edicts in preference of pursuing only their own pleasure and fulfillment of such without appreciating the value of the consequences. however, many killers can be entirely sane and in complete command of their faculties; they may well just do what they do because they enjoy it and don't care about the suffering they cause. just because this behaviour is abhorrent to us, we cannot sweep it under the carpet by saying that those which carry it out are insane simply because it makes us more comfortable. it's repugnant to think that someone who commits such atrocities could be equally as sane as we are, but it's often the case.
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Old 03-06-02   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy the Kidd
i think youre mistaking human greed for human survival.. we want to expand which is when the kill everything in the way..but not to survive. But like i said before...if i had to choose between mankind and animals id choose mankind. Because we are more advanced and because we can appreciate life more than an animal ever would. Sure we do do things that are bad too like blowing up pieces of what we love and appreciate..but..thats not like were doing it for the hell of it usually theres other humans there we dont like
perhaps so, but sadly everything beyond a roof over our head, some clothing, food, and water is greed. people seem to have extended the goalposts on what we 'need' to include many irrelevant items that are now considered necessities. there are a few particular humans that i have attachments to, but for the most part i have little respect or love for our species and wouldn't be sad in the slightest to know that we were about to be obliterated. quite a simplistic notion however, as it's highly improbable that our own destruction would leave the other species undamaged.
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Old 03-06-02   #25
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well, while most of what you said goes to emphasise my point in the very first line of my reply - that as individuals we can appreciate, it is as a species that we cause the demise of our environment, i would disagree with your statement about yin and yang because although we do all possess good and bad, the dark is out of proportion to the light. you are also assuming that conscious thought is automatically superior and preferable to the alternative which cannot be so; it is not a fact but a matter of opinion.
it is also erroneous to assume that - ie. serial killers and leaders that promote and commit genocide - someone who chooses to go against what 'society' considers morally right is necessarily insane. yes, the primary and secondary socialisation of an individual can cause deviant behaviour, as can sociopathy in which case the individual can know what is considered 'right' and 'wrong' and what manner of behaviour is acceptable and what is inappropriate. however, many killers can be entirely sane and in complete command of their faculties; they may well just do what they do because they enjoy it and don't care about the suffering they cause. just because this behaviour is abhorrent to us, we cannot sweep it under the carpet by saying that those which carry it out are insane simply because it makes us more comfortable. it's repugnant to think that someone who commits such atrocities could be equally as sane as we are, but it's often the case.
I dont know if would agree that people who enjoy killling even though they know its wrong are sane. I think that they may be suffering from some form of insanity. Dont forget the brain is rather uncharted and what we do know only fits the mass as a general observation. I think theres alot more little intricacies that we dont know about yet. And causing death can be one of them, hell is seems as though its a form of sadism..just because sadists today arent considered to be insane anymore doesnt mean that they really arent insane. I think that you dont give the human race as a whol enough credit...if anything we dont destroy conciously we destroy through apathy..but then can you blame us for it? Its alot easier to pretend not to care and to hide from what is than to deal with it...its easier to beat child than to raise it, its easier to do alot of thing apathetic than to deal...but that doesnt mean we are destroying something because we want to...in fact ill bet you that theres more random acts of kindness every day then there are vilolence...think about it how many times on the road do you let people cut in or vice versa..now how many times have you beeped and told tehm to fuck off? Its just like the rest of life..the bad seems to out weigh the good even if there is more good than there is bad...but thats only because of the way we are made..we are frail and physical..so we dwell on death and pain and misery its how we define everything. Fear in fact is only defined by how close you come to either death, or extram isolation from the rest of mankind. which in a sense leads to death as well. But i think as a whole mankind is reletively equal in its appetites for good and bad.... i mean while were nuking the shit out of one country were sending in million of dollars and food to another country recovering from a quake or flood. Mankind is 2 halves that make up one whole and i definatly dont agree that the wicked side of us overrules or outwirghs the good, you just hear more about the bad. But hey lookit our news...when do they do nice stories? You just hear the negative shit alllll the time, and since we hear the negative shit so much we asusme that all life is negative, and its just not true...mankind is equal with its two sides...just one gets more publicity than the other..and i hate it that people think that the bad is more prominate than the good, because its not so.
Just walk around the streets anywhere and use an open mind youll see what im talking about.
Man is just a great amassing of the ultimate paradoxes of good and bad.
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Old 03-06-02   #26
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Originally posted by doebathory


perhaps so, but sadly everything beyond a roof over our head, some clothing, food, and water is greed. people seem to have extended the goalposts on what we 'need' to include many irrelevant items that are now considered necessities. there are a few particular humans that i have attachments to, but for the most part i have little respect or love for our species and wouldn't be sad in the slightest to know that we were about to be obliterated. quite a simplistic notion however, as it's highly improbable that our own destruction would leave the other species undamaged.
youre only looking at physical needs...if it was that simple we would still be animals...but were not we are intelligent creatures, we also need to be productive and to have meaningful relationships with others to survie as well. I forget who it was i read that was talking about that...but i dont agree that we only need food water and shelter..thats all animals need..and you even said yourself that were more evolved than animals and we thnk and feel..so its only right that we would require more than those few things...like music, and art, and love, and laughter, and things of that nature. Im not talking about needing fuckin abercrombie jeans and stuff or video games..but im talking about the base thigns that appeal to us as creautres..entertainment and happyness and fun and all that we need these things in order to function properly, think what a human would be like if they were deprived of all that.... they would kill themself probably from boredom or depression.
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Old 03-06-02   #27
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I dont know if would agree that people who enjoy killling even though they know its wrong are sane. I think that they may be suffering from some form of insanity.

Dont forget the brain is rather uncharted and what we do know only fits the mass as a general observation.


i'm sure many of them are, but as i said before, i don't think we can assume that all of them are simply because they do things we cannot envisage doing ourselves without great torment of our conscience. many years ago, society considered women who enjoyed sex insane and depraved. obviously we now know better, but at the time, these individuals were going against what was the moral trend at the time. i am not suggesting that murder will ever become considered morally right, but i think it's entirely possible than only some of the people who commit it are not responsible for their actions and mentally unstable. the others are doing something that gives them pleasure and simply ignoring the social restrictions on the act because they want to do it. precisely because we know so little about the brain, it's functions and inner workings, any assumptions that we make can only have a certain degree of accuracy and a huge scope for fallacy.



I think that you dont give the human race as a whol enough credit...

please don't make the mistake of thinking that i neither see nor appreciate the good we are capable of, i simply feel that the many acts of kindness cannot make up for the atrocities we are capable of and carry out. i do realise that we see mostly the dark side of our natures in the media, and news reports on more benevolent acts would be a marvel. i feel, though, that it is possible to carry out greater acts of evil than of good. i also think that most people do not appreciate to the full the horror or death and pain. we see so much of it that we become desensitised. to me, one murderous act is not made up for by the saving of one life, because the pain is unequal to the joy.
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Old 03-06-02   #28
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I dont think good acts erase the bad ones either... buuuut I dont think bad acts erase the good acts as well.

I still stand firm behind my ideas that its pretty equal....theres just as much bad in this world as there is good. Some people just choose to focus on the bad and become pessemistic about it. I dont think we become desenetized to violence at all unless we are actually in it. Watching violence on tv and watching it in real life is completely differnt...just because i played mortal kombat doesnt mean i wouldnt flip if i saw someone get thier head pulled off in real life. Its all perspective..yours is that theres too kuch badness in the world and that the it outwieghs the good...mine is that there are more random acts of kindness and apathy than there are of badness...and yet they all remain equal...which in a way almost agrees to what you say because even if there are more acts of goodness and its only equal to the bad...then it shows that the bad may be a bit heavier on our minds and spirits than the good is, but that doesnt mean though that its not equal in the end.
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Old 03-07-02   #29
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I dont think good acts erase the bad ones either... buuuut I dont think bad acts erase the good acts as well.
i agree, i don't think the good acts are erased by the bad acts but i do feel that the good done by people is often overshadowed by the evil.

I still stand firm behind my ideas that its pretty equal....theres just as much bad in this world as there is good. Some people just choose to focus on the bad and become pessemistic about it. I dont think we become desenetized to violence at all unless we are actually in it. Watching violence on tv and watching it in real life is completely differnt...just because i played mortal kombat doesnt mean i wouldnt flip if i saw someone get thier head pulled off in real life.
of course, but i meant more that when we see death and pain in the media, because we see it reported so much, we care less, or rather are affected less than we should be by it. the media actually distances us from it in a way, by showing us still pictures and black and white text on a page. having the media between us and the violence makes it almost less violent, and less disturbing than had we been ten feet away and witnessed it. i realise that of course we cannot always be ten feet away, nor would wish to be, but perhaps we need to remember, every time we see it represented in words and pictures, how awful it would be if we were. perhaps the problem is not that people don't care, but, because of the manner in which the information is presented and disseminated, they simply forget the horror of it. we see death on the news every day. i saw it last night, and instead of being utterly horrified, i simply thought oh how awful and then went about whatever it was i was already doing. i almost feel as though i lost my point somewhere but i think it's so sad that we aren't more saddened by what we see and hear. i have been thinking very hard about death and what it means recently and have been very much effected by my conclusions. this is obviously a form of bias, but if, as you say, one of our duties as thinking creatures is to appreciate the world around us, this doesn't simply stop at the positive things; the negative need to be appreciated for just how bad they are too.

Its all perspective..yours is that theres too kuch badness in the world and that the it outwieghs the good...mine is that there are more random acts of kindness and apathy than there are of badness...and yet they all remain equal...which in a way almost agrees to what you say because even if there are more acts of goodness and its only equal to the bad...then it shows that the bad may be a bit heavier on our minds and spirits than the good is, but that doesnt mean though that its not equal in the end.
some of it is simply nature i think and cannot be avoided, but my main gripe is that so much of it is unnecessary. religion, ownership/tenancy of land, leadership - these are all inexcusable reasons for violence. the simple crux of the matter is that we should know better, we do know better, and yet we still do it. for a so-called thinking species we can be tremendously stupid and selfish.
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Old 03-07-02   #30
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Its all perspective..yours is that theres too kuch badness in the world and that the it outwieghs the good...mine is that there are more random acts of kindness and apathy than there are of badness...and yet they all remain equal...which in a way almost agrees to what you say because even if there are more acts of goodness and its only equal to the bad...then it shows that the bad may be a bit heavier on our minds and spirits than the good is, but that doesnt mean though that its not equal in the end.
some of it is simply nature i think and cannot be avoided, but my main gripe is that so much of it is unnecessary. religion, ownership/tenancy of land, leadership - these are all inexcusable reasons for violence. the simple crux of the matter is that we should know better, we do know better, and yet we still do it. for a so-called thinking species we can be tremendously stupid and selfish.
Dont forget though that we are bound to physicality and flesh...we cannot overcome such wants and desires because we are too affected by our environment..if we were above such things then we wouldnt need to go after them.
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Old 03-07-02   #31
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Re: How long must I wait??????

Quote:
Originally posted by Maxx
How long do you think I have to wait for the end of the world?
I hope you have patience need for waiting forever.
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Old 03-07-02   #32
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I hope you have patience need for waiting forever.
Patience?... yea I got plenty of that... but if I ever get impatient enough perhaps I could think of something to help the proccess along... any ideas?
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Old 03-07-02   #33
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No suggestions or ideas for ending the world will be given from me.

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Old 03-07-02   #34
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What a shame?
Anyone else wanna take a stab at it?
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