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Old 04-07-01   #1
Lucifer
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what's the difference between pagan magic, wiccan magic and goth magic (if there's anything like that)??

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Old 04-08-01   #2
Asphyxiation-Angel
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Pagan magic is magic performed by any one not using the symbols of the Christian Church. Wiccan Magic involves the beliefs, symbols and rites of the Wiccan religion, Goth magic is keeping your face makeup and powder from getting on your black clothing.
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Old 04-08-01   #3
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hahahahaah that's funny.....

i do have that problem, but i've figured a way around it......

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Old 04-08-01   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Asphyxiation-Angel
Pagan magic is magic performed by any one not using the symbols of the Christian Church. Wiccan Magic involves the beliefs, symbols and rites of the Wiccan religion, Goth magic is keeping your face makeup and powder from getting on your black clothing.

Pagan magic is traditionally the magic of the Druids, practiced for centuries and millenia. Wiccan magic is a bunch of mangled made-up crap that requires the purchase of a bunch of cheesy merchandise so the companies that open these Wiccan stores can stay fat and rich.
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Old 04-08-01   #5
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One is nonsense, one is garbage, and one is bullshit.
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Old 04-08-01   #6
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At least Paganism has the excuse that it was created in an age and place where Science didn't exist to disprove it. Wicca can't claim the same.
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Old 04-08-01   #7
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so you're saying, pagan magic is better than wiccan magic?? do they use the same spells, gods, book of shadows, rituals, etc???

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My tears gone cold, I'm wonderin' why
I got out of bed at all
The morning rain clouds at my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could, it would all be great
To put your picture on my wall
It reminds me that it's not so bad, it's not so bad....
oh, wanna thank you
for givin' me the best days of my life,
i wanna thank you, for givin me the best days
of my life....

"Thank you", Dido
******************************

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Old 04-08-01   #8
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From http://www.webster.com


Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
Date: 14th century
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person


As you can see from definition one, Wicca would qualify as pagan. Therefore, Wiccan magic is a form of pagan magic.

An earlier poster attempts to say that Wicca is inferior to another form of paganism because of the trappings. I would say in support of Wicca that the trappings referred to are the crutches of the novitiate. Wiccan "magic" requires nothing more than intention; just like any other form of magic. Both Wicca and druidism are neo-religions based on the indigenous religions of England, Scotland and Ireland. The only difference I found in my studies of both have been that Wicca is firmly based in the matriarchal fertility rites and lunar cycles while Druidism is more interested in the solar cycles and masculine energy although there are some druidic groups that try to balance somewhere between the two.
Keep in mind that neither religion has been practiced continuously. Both were basically destroyed by the introduction of Christianity to the Isles. Both were recreated after the witchcraft laws were repealed.

Pagan magic could be construed as Wiccan, Druidic, Norse, Germanic, Shamanism, or magic performed by any polytheist.

A good book to read on how magic works that contains a lot of information from various religions is Frasier's the Golden Bough. It explains the difference between contagious and sympathetic magic, the Micro/Macrocosm connection and the performance of various rites. A word of warning: Frasier writes as if he does not believe in his subject. Whether he does or not is a mute point because the information presented worth the read.

Slainte' M'hath

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Old 04-08-01   #9
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1) Wicca was invented fifty years ago. Not re-invented mind you, invented.

2) Paganism is the continuation of an ancient Celtic religion, the one practiced by most of the Celtic people in Gaul, Britain, and Scotland, and lead by the Druids. Though there's a lot of watering down and selling out of the religion today, it still has some tradition it's based in.

Wiccan, though it borrows most heavily from Paganism, also picks and chooses as it likes from various religions and mythologies, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhism, Greek, Norse, and Celtic Mythology, and vairous African, Aborigine, and Native American religions and myths. It has no set rules or beliefs, and the followers pick and choose as they like, and mangle and re-interpret from every belief ever to exist upon the surface of God or Brahman or Gaia's Green Earth.

A more simple comparison would be saying modern Paganism is like Hercules, a show based in tradition that's often misinterpreted but sticks mostly to it's own field and tries to maintain the actual original plot, and Wicca is like Xena, a new abomination trying to appear as if it were based in the original mythology while actually mocking everything that was once held dear under that tradition, and horribly mangling and pillaging everything anyone has ever held sacred.
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Old 04-09-01   #10
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It's very entertaining to watch the defender of christianity and paganism bad mouth wicca.
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Old 04-09-01   #11
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You're mean. And I can continue doing it all day if need be.
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Old 04-09-01   #12
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the difference eh?

Pagan is when they dance naked under a full moon with Sire... err The Devil.

Wicca is when they put stuff on "altars" and act like environmentalists

Goth is when you wiggle your fingers at someone and they faint because they think you cast a curse.
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Old 04-09-01   #13
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Sorry for being mean, but I've taken a lot from you about my intolerance of religions. In other words, you started it :p
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Old 04-09-01   #14
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I'm not a defender of Christianity. Unfortunately, as the religion that survived in the Isles, most of our information about previously practiced religions is filtered through the writings of the church and clergy. If anything, I'm a philosophical Daoist.
I was a student of Druidism in Seattle during the infamous "Druid War" period that split the pagan community for years afterward. I studied, degreed, and taught classes on Wicca for several years. I stopped actively practicing because I was tired of dealing with the weirdoes paganism attracts.
As far as the point made about Wicca creating itself from various traditions, it's true. When it first appeared in England, followers were strictly adherent to the traditions of the Celts crouched in the rites of the Catholic/Church of England. As it evolved, as any religion must in order to survive, it has changed. As a Druid, I was taught that that, while Deity is always the same, humans need to put a face on Him/Her that allows association/reflection with their lives. This is why St. Patrick incorporated so many of the existing holidays, rites and deities (Brigit) when converting Ireland.
If the practioners of Wicca use symbols from around the world (in an ever shrinking world at that) to find community with the divine, then the Druidic community (I still hold that American Druidism is Neo-Druidism otherwise it wouldn't survive in a society of skyscrapers and stock exchanges and I think Bonowitz [such a Druidic name] would agree.)
As far as Druidism being ancient, show me historical and verifiable proof of Druidic activity in: The Middle Ages, the Elizabethan Era, during the Irish potato famine or any other time frame between the Christianization of Ireland and the repeal of the Witchcraft Laws and I'll look into changing my position.
If you can only site a hidden order or traditions passed by individual families then I'll point you to beginnings in the Golden Dawn and Masonic Order or the same historical ties that the Wiccan religion claims. Otherwise, concede that both religions, as all religions, are merely the creation of man to deal with the unknown.
If you can do either of these, then I might be persuaded that you have some understanding of the teachings of Druidism and are not just a Waldenbooks Wanna-Be.


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