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Old 09-05-06   #1
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the evolution debate

what are your thoughts about it?

I think it's a steaming load of crap myself. And I also think the church's retarded intollerance to alternate points of view is equally if not more idiotic.

prime example:

(to paraphrase:

church: ZOMG we don't agree with this exhibit! take it down right now or we'll call you names!

museum: go fuck yourselves)

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...7357884508A162

Furious evolution debate hits Kenyan museum

By Lillian Omariba

Nairobi - The global debate between scientists and conservative Christians over evolution has hit Kenya, where an exhibit of one of the world's finest collections of early hominid fossils is under threat.

As the famed National Museum of Kenya (NMK) prepares to re-open next year after massive EU-funded renovations, evangelicals are demanding the display be removed or at least shunted to a less prominent location.

The Origins Of Man exhibit, comprised of pre-historic finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say.

"When museums put it out there that man evolved from apes, theologically they are affecting many people who are Christians, who believe God created us," says Bishop Boniface Adoyo, who is leading a campaign against the exhibit.

"It's creating a big weapon against Christians that's killing our faith," he told AFP, calling evolution theory an "insult" and dangerous to youths. "When children go to museums they'll start believing we evolved from these apes.

"This is not the truth," said Adoyo, pastor of Nairobi's "Christ is the Answer Ministries" and chairman of the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya, which claims to represent churches of 35 denominations with nine million members.

"I can't stand it, neither can other Christians," he said.

The bishop's high-profile drive to force the government-funded museum to downgrade what is arguably its most important collection has put him squarely at odds with the scientific community and curators.

Many of the fossils were discovered by legendary paleontologists Louis and Mary Leakey in east Africa whose pre-historic finds around the Olduvai Gorge, Lake Victoria and Lake Turkana are seen by many as proof of Darwin's theory.

Their son, Richard, himself a noted anthropologist and conservationist, is particularly disturbed by the furore and is speaking out against what he says is a misguided attempt to reject sound science.

"The church is being ridiculous," he told AFP. "The church leaders are out of step. They should concentrate on their faith and leave scientists to concentrate on their historical work and defend it."

"Evolution theory is accepted across the world," he said. "This is scientific history and Kenya has the best of this evolutional history. Globally, few can match that claim to fame."

Officials at the museum, which houses priceless items including remains of hominid species dating back 1,7 million to 1,2 million years, are loath to get involved in the fractious debate but defend the exhibition.

"The fossils have confirmed Kenya's position as the cradle of mankind and have drawn large numbers of visitors," the museum said in a statement released shortly after Adoyo launched his campaign.

In an email response to questions posed by AFP, NMK director general Farah Iddle said the museum "strives to accommodate divergent views and ideas".

"However, it also has the responsibility of ensuring that the integral research findings that have been developed over time are preserved," he said.

"This includes the fossil collection that's the scientific evidence that shows the relationship between apes' fossils dated millions of years back and the modern man."

Exact display plans for the exhibit when the 75-year-old museum re-opens in June 2007 are still being discussed but officials said they hope to keep it in a position of prominence among three new re-designed galleries.

What will not likely change, they say, is the placement of a huge bronze sculpture outside the museum's main gate, which depicts a series of figures from ape to humans gradually becoming more erect as they walk.
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Old 09-05-06   #2
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I believe in natural selection, but I dont think Evolution is solid enough to put my faith in it. I dont put my faith in creationism either, but people who tout both are fucking morons who believe fairy tales based on faith.
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Old 09-05-06   #3
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i honestly could care less what other people think as far as evolution vs creationism vs flying spaghetti monster goes, what i think is completely assanine is the way people keep trying to shove one theory vs another down eachothers' throats.

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Old 09-05-06   #4
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Agreed. I get it pretty much equally from both sides, although at least its easy to shut a door on an evangelicals faced at 8 in the morning. It isnt so easy to block out the rabid religion bashers all over the place since there seems to be more of them.
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Old 10-04-06   #5
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I guess it's not quite obvious, but what many Christians don't realize is that the Bible represents a lot of the evolution theory. In Genesis, bBefore Eve bit the apple, she was naked, animalistic and a primate. After she bit it, she knew right and wrong (like a human), put clothes on (like a human), etc. Thus, she evolved from primate to man.

A quick way of explaining it, but ah well.
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Old 10-04-06   #6
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honestly i don't care whether evolution is right or not. it seems like any explanation anybody comes up with is really just pulling theories out of their ass, albeit to varying levels. it all smells like shit to me...

a better question perhaps than where we're from is where we're going. i personally don't care about the issue very much... but there ya go. still, i gotta give props to folks who wonder about it. let me know when you figure it out
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Old 10-05-06   #7
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I guess it's not quite obvious, but what many Christians don't realize is that the Bible represents a lot of the evolution theory. In Genesis, bBefore Eve bit the apple, she was naked, animalistic and a primate. After she bit it, she knew right and wrong (like a human), put clothes on (like a human), etc. Thus, she evolved from primate to man.

A quick way of explaining it, but ah well.
Thats not evolution, jackass, thats stupid fairy tale Bullshit.

There is plenty of scientific evidence, just look at the Flu. Every year a new Flu vaccine has to be made because the previous years Virus evolved an immunity to it. Evolution is real, and if you don't believe in it, you are deluding yourself.
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Old 10-05-06   #8
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Thats not evolution, jackass, thats stupid fairy tale Bullshit.

There is plenty of scientific evidence, just look at the Flu. Every year a new Flu vaccine has to be made because the previous years Virus evolved an immunity to it. Evolution is real, and if you don't believe in it, you are deluding yourself.
Isnt that natural selection really? Or is Natural selection and Evolution the same, I dont think they are. I never really studied that subject in depth so I dont know as much.
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Old 10-06-06   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefr0g View Post
Thats not evolution, jackass, thats stupid fairy tale Bullshit.

There is plenty of scientific evidence, just look at the Flu. Every year a new Flu vaccine has to be made because the previous years Virus evolved an immunity to it. Evolution is real, and if you don't believe in it, you are deluding yourself.
If you didn't catch that, I said I did believe in Evolution. Just Christians who keep joking themselves when they don't believe in it. It's pathetic.
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Old 10-05-06   #10
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Natural Selection and Evolution are closely related. Natural selection is the idea that nature will weed out the weak, and only those species with the ability to adapt (Read: Evolve) will survive. Natural Selection is usually the cause of extinctions, while Evolution is a trait of the surviving species.
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Old 10-06-06   #11
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Whether you believe or not, your example was not an example of evolution.
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Old 10-12-06   #12
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Science places (museums, for instance) should exhibit science, and the churches should exhibit faith. Problem solved.
I personally don't see the conflict between the idea that man evolved (or how that can be denied, although origin is questionable) and the idea that a force (God) was behind the whole thing. But it gives people something to do, I guess. And we do seem happiest when we have something to complain about!
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Old 10-12-06   #13
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I believe in evolution. And the works of Darwin.
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Old 10-30-06   #14
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in my opinion its probly both a mix of bioligicly inevitabul DNA and belifes and ideals as well, both not one; there for if theres evolution proof in a museum and you dont like it just close your eye and walk past it, dont feak out
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Old 11-25-06   #15
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First of all, it doesn't say in the original version of the bible that the universe was created in 7 days, it says 7 periods of time.

The Romans were the first to come up with 'days' as a measurement of time, before that time was measured in lunar months and seasons.
(If you think that's weird, purple, pink and orange were invented in the 19 century)

The bible doesn't contradict evolution, no matter what the religious fruitcakes say.
Darwin was a devout Christian who didn't believe his own hypothesis, he just laid the facts down for people to do with them what they will.

The reason evolution is referred to as a 'theory' rather than a law or fact, is that in science, it's a theory if it cannot be proven without using the desired result in the equation. Just like the theory of relativity can never be upgraded to a fact unless it can be proven without relativity in the equation (It will never happen). A+B=C not C-B+A=C

On a side note, there is no mention of an apple in the original version of the bible, it's 'the fruit of the tree of knowledge'.
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Old 11-26-06   #16
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Well, as much as I hate to say this, because I'm not for religion myself, but one can't exsist without the other. Creation vs. Evolution, still to this day, no damn moron can explain either one without getting off on a wild tagent that leads nowhere. I really don't give a rip if either volume exsists, because all religion is, is a base of rules forced upon you and to tell you what you can or can't practice or believe in.
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Old 11-27-06   #17
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No, Darwin was an agnostic. He had a degree in Theology.

I don't like any of those theories, both evolution and biblical creation have too many holes in them.

Though I do like the theistic "young Earth" creation, because it says God planted fake evidence to screw with humanity. But I think Intelligent Design is probably the most accurate of them all.
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Old 11-27-06   #18
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Well you are an idiot. If your avatar is a picture of you, it only backs up this conclusion.
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Old 11-27-06   #19
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Intelligent design collapses when you examine the knee and the sacrum.

The human knee, if it was designed, is the worst design you could possibly imagine, it's a miracle we don't break them more often.
Rather than a joint, it's one bone resting on another with no real retention.

The sacrum.. a shrunken tail...Why?
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Old 11-29-06   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroluce View Post
Intelligent design collapses when you examine the knee and the sacrum.

The human knee, if it was designed, is the worst design you could possibly imagine, it's a miracle we don't break them more often.
Rather than a joint, it's one bone resting on another with no real retention.

The sacrum.. a shrunken tail...Why?
Fiddle-faddle. lol.

Intellegent design requires a certain amount of pragmatism. I never really bother myself with the infinitives but consider, it works doesn't it?
Consider we are human built to do whatever it is we are supposed to do, octopi require the better eye design becuase it suited for their enviroment, just like the eagle has the eye best suited for it, humans don't need to be able to see for miles and through reflective surfaces. Consider the knee it looks like crap seems like it was made by a drunken engineer but it works, seems like a tab with a small hammer should damage it but its actually quite strong, and it design has its advantages.
As to the rest of it. I am not certian that there is intelligent life on THIS plante so I am not sure we are qualified to discuss the mental abilities of other conciousness.
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