Witchcraft integrated into life as a whole... - Darkforum.com - Dark Stories, Dark Art, Poetry, Photography, Debates and Discussions

Darkmystic · **Witchcraft integrated into life as a whole... -** 05-15-07

Hello all, I haven't posted here in, well, a long time. I tend to lurk more than anything these days.
I've been reading a few books recently by Konstantinos and Ly de Angeles (on witchcraft, etc.) and am having a hard time understanding the complete picture of how witchcraft/wicca fit into life as a whole. Having taken a world religions class this semester for my graduate program and done an interview, the list of questions we were given I thought might deal more effectively with some of the questions I have in placing witchcraft in the larger whole of life and the world at large, etc. If any would care to take a swipe at some of these, I'd love to hear your responses! (I'm including all the questions to gain a little more perspective into the minds of those who respond, but am most interested in those pertaining to science, as I happen to be a scientist

)

1. How did you come to your current understanding of magic and witchcraft? What influenced you in this?
2. Have you seriously questioned or examined your beliefs? Do you think people at large do this commonly?
3. What sort of things might challenge your beliefs? What are its strengths?
4. Is it possible to test one's worldview, whether for internal coherency or pragmatic relevance?

For the interesting questions:
5. How does one relate science to wicca? Can one be a good scientist and witch (or preferred term)? Does science have any ability either to justify or falsify wicca in any way? How do you understand Evolution and other scientific theories to relate to nature, gods and goddesses?
6. How does witchcraft serve as a guide for life?
7. How does one's conception of gods and goddesses influence the rest of one's beliefs? (I'm trying here to see the relation of the idea of god-forms as opposed to the more premodern aspects of gods and goddesses as understood by witches centuries/millenia ago.)
8. What is the nature of god/goddess (conceptually)
9. Is there anything beyond the cosmos?
10. What sort of things is one able to know?
11. Where did I/humankind come from?

Something to ponder while one is bored anyway

DarkSoul · 05-29-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmystic

1. How did you come to your current understanding of magic and witchcraft? What influenced you in this?

well i came to my current understanding after spending six years a hogwarts, where i was taught a variety of magic, including how to ride a broom stick, grow gills and not get laid...

as for what influenced me in this, it might have something to do with the fact that i was kidnapped by a 11ft half giant, possibly raped repeatedly (i can't remember much after he gave me those 6 pints in some dive called the leaky cauldron. for all i know the bar tender joined in, he looked like a right peadophile..) then dumped on some shitty train where i passed out. When i came to there was some red headed freak going through my pokets and claiming i was famous, he then pulled a rat out of his pocked while telling me i was going to some castle of "magic"..

yours magically
Harry Potter

Narsianin · 05-30-07

If You have interest do now more about life in the infinity-ONE,read Father Narsus message : Congregation of the God of All Living
"Infinity-ONE contains of an infinity numbers of opportunities."

..bloodbride.. · 06-05-07

I have asked those same (well similar anyway lol) questions to myself and many others. How i found my "way" was actually just a click away. I suggest you go to parascience.org and check out some of the great essays on occultism and life as a whole. i admire mr.dolgorukii for his excellent work and if it wasn't for him i would not have the outlook on life i do now.

in my honest opinion i find wicca sort of "insulting" to their own message (if that even makes sense). the whole movement began as a sort of revolt against mainstream religeon (if i have done my research correctly). but isn't that just a reaction to mainstream religeon? i mean how can one reach "spiritual enlightenment" if you follow a lifestyle based on revolting against something?

i hope this post makes sense. it's late and i'm tired lol

Narsianin · 06-06-07

Father Narsus experience and message - it`s include lotoff question`s and more answer`s. But the gquality`s and structure of the infinity-one? - it`s only first step for understandable,how long it`s a course to I´m self and to the God. But this is a CORNER-stone of Narsianity,yardstick for God,Men and Truth!

Jordyn · 06-06-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narsianin

Father Narsus experience and message - it`s include lotoff question`s and more answer`s. But the gquality`s and structure of the infinity-one? - it`s only first step for understandable,how long it`s a course to I´m self and to the God. But this is a CORNER-stone of Narsianity,yardstick for God,Men and Truth!

my false prophet senses are tingling, again.

Austere · 06-10-07

Is not Wicca older than tons of other religions? I wouldnt necessarily call Wicca a movement, nor was it a revolt. Wicca is basically pagan beliefs and nature-based...Wicca has been around for awhile, but people misunderstand and mutilate the original beliefs. People assume it is just something fun and scary but I assure you, Wicca and being a "witch" is real. It is a real religion and isnt just for goobers who want to fall away from being catholic or christian and be "cool"...Wicca isnt about black magic or any of that shit. Media has ruined Wicca and people need to research in credible places.

Dyshade · 06-10-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austere

Is not Wicca older than tons of other religions?.

No! It was created in the late 40's early 50's. That is the early 1950's

So it is not even 100 years old yet.

Azarael · 06-11-07

Well lets see now the overwhelming influence as to why many people turn to wicca can be traced back to very simple base needs such as love,sex,money etc.thats what makes it so apllicable to everyday life is the fect that all problems are supposedly solvable by charms or spells from a scientific outlook yes many of the thing that wicca proclaims can be scientificly proven but its far from a science.In short if your looking for a true path to enlightenment wicca isnt it purely because the spirituality of wicca never escapes those base needs and thus never allows the individual to escape from their own ego and thus become enlightened.I suggest as a scientific logical person you look beyond the pure superstition of wicca and find a more truthfull path to yourself. a good place to start looking would be Hermetics Resource Site ...oh and as for the nature of gods and goddesses they are merely faces given to energies of a certain nature and therefor should not be regarded as entities but as energies and working with those energies should be aproachd in such a manner

**Question # 7 -** 06-30-07

[quote=Darkmystic;1595838]
7. How does one's conception of gods and goddesses influence the rest of one's beliefs? (I'm trying here to see the relation of the idea of god-forms as opposed to the more premodern aspects of gods and goddesses as understood by witches centuries/millenia ago.)

I am a reader much like you, rarely do I comment or post on boards. However I think this is a good subject to address, and people should choose a religion weather it be following one introduced to them or combining those that suit them.

The meaning of Gods and Goddesses in this religion or so I have been taught over the years, these are not different gods! but merely parts of god. witchcraft teaches the ying and yang of everything. just as nature teaches us this i.e. light/dark, good/evil, male/female...one cannot exist without the other. and so this rule also applies in religion, and example of this is

CERNUNNOS god of the underworld (darkness and death void of light)
CLIODNA goddess of the otherworld (light, life, nature)

yet these are not different gods, they are names given to the different parts that are supposed to explain why things are the way they are. Much like Christianity names Jesus as the life, light, and son of god, and Satan as the exact opposite.

Magic is harder to explain but easy to understand once you learn it. The easiest way I have found to explain a magical experience is this. when you concentrate on something you bring it's priority to the highest in your life at that moment. now, add a few more minds and combine that focus on the same thing, it creates energy weather it be positive or negative energy the result is the same. i.e. in Christianity people go to church and gather together creating a congregation (Coven) and are all asked to pray for someones health, wealth, or people (same as a coven would focus and concentrate on a certain thing) because two minds (prayers) are better then one.

I was born in the Celtic Religion and come from a long line of priests and priestesses in this order. I have been an Ordained high Priestess in the Celtic domain for over 6 years now. I marry, teach, hand fast/part, and bury people in my faith.

newcomers to my religion always ask me the most impossible questions about life, spirit, the universe, and especially why they are here. who is god? does he exist? is there a heaven or a hell? what really happens when we die? etc... you get the point!

Maybe my religion makes for sense to me because I was born in it, just as catholicism makes more sense to those raised in a catholic home. As everyone who studies witchcraft will agree, in order to become ordained in this type of religion not only does the apprentice have to learn this religion but in fact have basic knowledge and respect for all religions regardless of that religions belief, faith, teachings, or even authenticity.

I do not proclaim to have the answers to death, life, religion, or faith. And I am not in the habit of forcing my religion, practices, and beliefs on other people. I respect all religions weather I agree with them or not.

However it is hard to stomach at times the plague like spread of many religions I know to be false. I think the real question is, " why must the religions that publish book(s) stating god's intentions, likes and dislikes, not to mention rules on how to live life, and then condemn those that see the Hypocrisy in their beliefs?"

Bless and be blessed
Lady Shannen

Dyshade · 06-30-07

Religions are only false to people who do not believe in them. To those with belief they are as real as rain. In calling a religion false you are bringing your own hypocrisy to the table and leaving your own beliefs open to questioning.

Instead of calling them false why not consider them just not your cup of tea.

06-30-07

I agree, I do bring the hypocrisy on myself as I stated earlier, when I said I have to have knowledge and respect of all religions even the ones who's authenticity I believe to be in question. I also stated I (meaning my religion) do not proclaim to have the answer to every question of the universe. I also agree that to have faith in a religion sometimes we confuse blinded beliefs for something factual. and as always my religion and beliefs are always open for questioning.

Bless and be bless

Lady Shannen

Narsianin · 07-02-07

One God,lot-off names! It`s problem for man,not for God. Absolut,Holly Spirit, Spirit of Infinity,etc.etc - but God is same!

Jordyn · 07-05-07

[quote=Highpriestess29;1600062]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmystic

However it is hard to stomach at times the plague like spread of many religions I know to be false. I think the real question is, " why must the religions that publish book(s) stating god's intentions, likes and dislikes, not to mention rules on how to live life, and then condemn those that see the Hypocrisy in their beliefs?"

Bless and be blessed
Lady Shannen

i agree, if i see one more trendy twit insisting that the wicca is an ancient craft of the wise, while whining how horrible christians are, i fear i may lose the breakfast, i haven't had yet.

dyshade may have been kind, questioning your statement, but personally i'm curious how you have garnered such wisdom from a neopagan religion that was morphed from other heathen practices, licensed and sent out with a price tag?

...unless you've personally sacrificed humans, slaughtered your enemy and understand the subtle reasons why a warrior nature enjoyed bravado and bloodshed as much as they enjoyed bravado and drinking, i don't think you have earned any right to decide what's a more "real" religion than another one, especially holding it up against neo pagan religions like much of the occult and other ancient cultures, romanticized by a scant offering of archeological discoveries, that were destroyed; before gardner was a glimmer in the occult world's eye.

witchcraft ying and yang? that's almost as funny as "searching for witchcraft in credible places"; at least you got the nature part right.

don't confuse wicca and witchcraft, i may no longer prescribe to practicing witchery, but witchcraft is too grand of scope to restrict it within the confines of just another organized religion, and that's all wicca is...actually it's no different than catholicism, except that roman catholicism is really so much older in it's establishment.

both have a form of priest, both have rite and ritual, both pray before idols to grant requests and both are subject to the poor examples set by those who follow them while insisting they are the one true and right religion for everyone.

07-10-07

I admire your passion in your defense. but you haven't a clue of what your talking about. I think you are more in to starting a religious fight then to actually make a point.

I am fully aware of the history surrounding Wicca! I do not practice wicca. I think you need to read a book and discover for yourself just how many religions there are associated with witchcraft

wisdom is learned from many places and the pedestal from where you preach deary. stems from a religion (as all religion) of murder-rape-betrayal-hate-and blood. my religion is no different. and for you to say that you have never gained wisdom from something bad, just makes you a moron.

I think you have great anger inside you and feel the need to unleash your fury on those whom do not deserve it. where ever in your delusional mind, did you interpret me saying I have the authority to decide what religion is "real"?

in Fact I believe I stated I DO NOT PROCLAIM TO HAVE THE ANSWERS!!!!

And as for your attack against witchcraft and credible places, once again read a book or two on your history of religions and where they stem from. Christianity even believed in some forms of the craft at one time. also witchcraft does have a light and dark side and there are those whom only study and practice the light or dark side of the craft.

as far as romans being more ancient then witchcraft, well this is just another example of your ignorance and refusal to get your facts straight before you make an ass out of yourself.

For those like myself whom have been born into a religion that practices witchcraft, we sit by and watch people like you destroy the good part of it's legacy with the bad part of it, there are good people who study witchcraft, hence ying and yang we are the light of the dark. but we know that our religious history is very dark and covered in bloodshed.
this is what I spoke of when I speak of plague like religions.

I suggest as a person not a High Priestess that you read carefully next time and offer something other then blind idiotic ravings to support, defend, or discredit someone else.

Bless and Be Blessed

Lady Shannen

07-10-07

Narsianin

Very good short explanation, I believe I will use this in my class if it is ok with you.

Jordyn · 07-11-07

ahhahaaa....

do these work?

Quote:

history?

funny you bring that up...historically there is no way shape or form that dionysis was any sort of predecessor of Jesus...if anything as Kenneth C. Davis points out in his books Don't Know Much About Mythology His death and rebirth are more akin to that of osiris, and even comes after the very different life and style of Jesus...Dionysis as a imported god from the near east area represented all the hedonistic, drunken, outrageous sexual exploits that Jesus lived His life contrary to and His Father strictly forbade...their religion spreading monogamy, moderation and plutonic love of each other, rather than orgiastic rites spread through out the streets of ancient cities that celebrated holy whores, that came years after egyptian culture began it's decline. Jesus was never hacked up, put back together or any of the other violent expressions of one god hating another god and destroying the other to do so...He willingly, gracefully and peacefully accepted that was His reason on earth, resurrected to symbolise the power of His Father, not to appease some pouty god or goddess that used their divinity to appease their own ruffled feathers, rather than any concern for those who worshipped them, the greeks didn't even exist until AFTER the assyrians, the persians and FINALLY the greeks, who gave birth to roman myth.

The egyptians, i can understand some influence they would have had over the creation of Judaism, but the term stealing is silly...that would be like saying the mayans, mexicas and other south american cultures popping up at the same time as other religious cultures stole their ideas from the nile valley; particularly the mayans...a supreme sun god sending his children down, beautiful twins to teach the humans, leading them to a better land and showing them how to be more advanced people...but their pictoglyphs are not like any known to date, they were one of only three cultures throughout the archealogically known history of the world(the egyptians are not one of them) that knew about the number zero, or the mexica with their little bird telling them to follow and their supreme war god telling them they'd find him on a pillar as a white eagle clutching a snake in the middle of a lake...funny enough these cultures also had a great tree of life with various levels that led up to their gods...how many ancient religions have a tree of life, a white bird to be worshipped or followed their gods at their request, who did they steal their religious belief and rituals from?

back to the egyptians, not only do they have two different and distinct creation myths, but four different versions of the impractical concept used to "prove" christian religous thievery, including the acts of necrophelia, incest, masterbatury sprinklings of semen from a god creating all life on earth...and the simple fact that any pharoh could call himself "the living horus" suggests that this idea is as whacked as other ideas that have little to no basis in history or archeology. add on to this the political envrionment and competition and the many sections of egyptian cultures, spread across several dynasties, dozens of rulers and one predynasty giving the multitude of pharohs freedom to pick and choose what supreme beign they wanted to be, that month...how can anything be said with certainty by this concept, especially with the fact the first time isis was heard about outside of egypt was written by plutarch, a greek biographer, making the egyptain deities...greek?

who stole who?

furthermore the story of osiris and isis, paralleling innana and dumuze of the sumerians, suggest that the egyptians stole the idea from them, not the christians stealing it from the egyptians(mesopotamia is several centuries older, and it's sumeria that's believed to have given birth to abraham). Considering the babylonians were the other culture aware of the number zero, i'm more apt to believe these cultures have the honor of being the first religion all others in the nile valley are derived from, including the egyptians. Further consider that the first evidence of deity worship appears around 60,000 b.c...how can anyone say with any accuracy who stole what from who...not even the book of dead is exclusive to the egyptian cultures(not even written until the new kingdom) coincidently enough the ancient south american cultures had theirs, as do the hindus, even more interestingly enough, the hindus are the third culture that knew of the number zero.

regardless of the similiarities of world myths, christianity, it's patriarchs, their God and His son Jesus were the first religon out of this area to expect humility, righteous living and placing more emphasis on the spiritual rather than engaging in acts of the flesh for spiritual enlightenment, having the son of a god that stressed He was not a god, desiring to be treated no different than any other person He walked with, confirms He's nothing like any god, demigod or pharoh's ego of the self, regardless of the main vein that's woven through all world myths...egypt wasn't the only great religious culture predating christianity...nor was it the first to lay claim to; the creation of the world, the children of gods walking as human and spreading wisdom or condone acts that the bible strictly advises against, in addition to being the first western religion to turn away from human sacrifice; further demonstrates it's more original than any, heathen faith of the time.

the similirities it shares with any other myth in any other part of the historical world i do not believe are intentionally stolen, i can understand conquered influence, however the patriarchs weren't conquered...but those who are insulting christians with their pipe dreams and half conceived ideals of thievery are failing to realize that not any religion in the world is original, all cultures that could imagine did, and are demonstrating ignorance of a faith that has proven it's a stand alone religion, consuming those who were touched by it's different spiritual ideals, foreign to anything experienced before, religiously(even zoraster's religion was created about the same time). To say it's stolen is saying that all religion is stolen, particularly the neopagan faiths that have been popping up since the early 1900's with no basis in ancient history aside from the names of some gods chosen by people that are incapable of understanding what inspired such dieties, the brutal requirements to worship these beings and the violence all religion is capable of in the hands of men...by a contemporary culture that can have no concept of what the originators of their gods truly intended, how they lived or who they worshipped, but was founded on the back of the bible.

before using the term history in this debate, perhaps you should read what historians really say; try a search for world timelines and see what cultures were around to influence other cultures before going off on half baked ideas suggesting cultures that came years after another, influenced the earlier culture. This is what i've concluded from reading tangible sources that anyone with a library card can read, touch and see; Jesus was not the only messiah, there have been many other supreme beigns, and unquestioning religious faith in a god is not exclusive to christianity...but to continue saying that christian faith is stolen from the egyptians or even more outrageously the greeks, is just...not validated in any way shape or form through anything to do with archeological discovery, historical recordings or known by experts studying these fields, today.

books

Don't Know Much About Mythology: Kenneth C. Davis
Myth and Sexuality: Jamake Highwater (i've read this one three times)
Native Land, Sagas of the Indian Americas: Jamake Highwater
Books of the Dead: Stanislave Grof
A History of the Ancient World: Chester G. Starr
The Language of the Goddess: Marija Gimbutas

links

*pick your timeline
*what do you really know about egypt's predynasty?
*oh look their gods are half man and half animal too
*what about this resembles Christ?

for the rest of the discussion

i have been reading my history, real history books that are not attempting to sell anything to anyone...or recreate ancient religions that are only known from fractions of archeological discovery, that's what the sca is for. it may not be about witchcraft persay, but i really do not believe anyone today is practicing anything that was practiced several thousand years ago...unless it's simple animism. and yes, it is my reply!

do you know something that experts don't, or are you in tune with the akashic records?

i'll add another link for good measure...