I believe thats where we differ Heathen. You are a creature of logic, I am a creature of heart. Our similar mindsets lead us to similar opinions, but we won't be completely the same. Not to say that either of us are incapable of thinking like the other, I use logic to explain almost everything... almost. And judging by the fact that you are a poet... you obviously have heart. But when all the cards are laid out, thats the key difference.

Heathen, who was that in referrence to.. Me? If so, I am sincerely complimented.. If not, I'm still complimented!

Fr0g, if it wasn't 230 am and I didn't like you, I'd be forced to argue to the death. I'll have to accept we can be different. And my masturbatory (which my girlfriend informed me is a word I just invented, although I swear I've read it before) comment was directed at Skorpions men on hills.

Heathen, you and me both. I could've sworn I saw that word somewhere. My boyfriend agrees with your girlfriend.. I've made it up in this strangely twisted mind of mine. But, god, I could've sworn!!!

Well Heathen, judging from what I've read of your posts in the past, I would quite enjoy an argument, I'm always looking for worthy opponents . And I use the word masturbatory quite a bit... allthough I don't think it actually exists.

I can usually tear apart a christian (in debate, mind you) pretty easily. Once you get rid of religion it becomes more difficult. The most I could probably do is call you illogical. But atheism is usually better on the defensive anyway, as we are not obligated to prove god does not exist, only prevent others from proving he does. If you have any arguments about your Diesm I'll take them on. But if it's just a gut feeling, it looks like we're at a stalemate (but you're still illogical, hehe)

Either there is a God or its true that we all started in a pool of amino acids.

Personaly, I like the idea of God better. He seems more qualified to manage life than the random acts of cells.

It is that kind of closed mindedness that people need to avoid. Why is it a question with only two answers?

God is akin to these burrito farts...... the whole idea stinks.... ummmmmmm..... at least to me..... there may be a fetishist or two that may disagree but .... DAMN they stink!!

Leave it to Skorpion to answer all our questions on masturbation .

You're right Heathen, I really dont have much evidence to back up any of my beliefs, and I allready believe in most of the evidence you will try to use to disprove my beliefs, so at best our argument would have to just be a discussion, because, as you said, we probably wouldn't get anywhere.

That this thread is over and done with, finally?!? Oh please, I refuse to get my hopes up too high....But, the temptation!!

You can explain away God extremely easily from a single point of view, if you start with where you are then explain all things around you moving outwards, it's easy to destroy any religious belief with cold hard scientific logic. But you're never going to be able to explain everything that way, because the basic truth is that in a purely scientific reality with no original sentience, in all logic and reason there would be absolute nothing, void, and silence, forever and never, with no one to ever give a damn. The only argument that could even begin to explain this is that time reverts in on itself in a circle, thus the universe begat itself, but someone or something would have needed to start this cycle. Using nothing but reason and science the basic truth is that none of us should exist, and neither should anything else. So there has to be something at least remotely similar to the Jewish concept of a single God.

That is not the only explanation. There are always more explanations we just haven't thought of yet. For example, as Stephen Hawkings said, the laws of logic and nature are true for the universe, but before the universe existed these laws did not exist.

Though this makes for a very heated thread, I would say it is damn near impossible to come to a solution. One person will always believe the opposite of another, and that person will always disbelieve in what another believes. That's what makes us all so unique.

Besides, Nobody really can argue about whether the existence of God is real or not. Simply because we were not there during biblical times, to witness with our very eyes the "wonders of God", as the bible so broadly put it. Though I do not believe in his existence, I am ill-prepared to argue my side. How the hell do I know life actually began from one single organism? How the hell do I really know God didn't spend 6 days creating this earth? 6 days could very well mean 6 million years. Hell, who knows?

I'll just have to die and find out the truth. That's the only solution. But, eh.. Don't kill ye'selves just yet, hear? Heh..

While I admire your attempts at being diplomatic, I do not agree. You do not have to witness something for you to declare it bullshit. Caesar was born of a virgin, so the story goes. BULLSHIT. Caesar's soul was seen acending to heaven. BULLSHIT. The bullshit filter is always on, except when it comes to your specific religion. Zeus? BULLSHIT. Talking snakes, angels, demons, plants that grow before the sun exists, oceans above and below, a mule worth 2 sheckles, people rising from the dead...Gee, I like it!

I don't believe I ever heard that story about Caesar...and I assume you're talking about Julius Caesar, as opposed to Caesar Augustus or Octavius or Claudius or one of the two dozen other caesars. You're quite right though, it's easy to declare anything you want illegitimate bullshit. Fun fun fun. Even easier when you don't really care about solving the argument, or what the other persons saying! You really have to just get these little apathetic malevolent tricks down to bullshit everything and anyone you come into contact with, but it's well worth it when you're finding yourself alone and shattered with no beliefs or friends jumping off a ten story building...

wheeee!!

Remember, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

You can pity 'em, but I doubt you can sympathize with them.

Well sympathize means you can relate to them on a personal level.

What are you talking about? The ability to tell bullshit from reality is very useful. When things break laws of nature, then they better have a shitload of evidence behind them. You seem to think seeing bs for the bs that it is will leave you broken and alone, with no beliefs and suicidal, or however else you stereotyped.

....However very few things in life have a shitload of evidence backing them up, religious or otherwise. Whether you admit it or not most of the things you believe you're taking on faith.