I call bullshit, mankind does NOT want to do the right thing inherently, watch Children for your proof, they want to do whats right for themselves, (MINE!). Morality becomes a learned behavior until a concience developes, and the concience is what? Just an internal monolouge reflecting the things we have come ot accept that we were taught as we grew.

The 1st humans didnt do the right thing because they wanted to, they did it because they feared the wrath of god, and BEFORE they were smart enough to imagine a god they were doing what? Thats right, eating thier dead, raping each other and killing each other over leadership position and food. When we evolved a bigger stronger brain and started THINKING, and we combined that thinking with confusion for our environment, we started to get scared. Not knowing what rain is, while being sentient is probably quite terrifying. So to explain it, we think that theres someone making it happen, maybe its some god crying? Ut oh, we dont want that so maybe we will start sacrificing virgins to appease him? That is the root of morality. based in the root of religion.

Jesus Christ, Early humans had no concept of sanitation. In fact the earliest humans ATE thier dead.

They didnt start burying thier dead until they developed a concept of god and afterlife, The to go bag is PROOF, if it was only sanitation they woulodnt leave flowers and arrow heads or whatever. They would simple bury him and keep his tools.

MORALITY is a belief and a code of behavior and ideals developed IN CONJUNCTION with the belief in a god and punishment. The afterlife fits squarely in there. Stop being a cognitive dissonant and accept the facts.

Don't you know about Hammurabi?

There you have it. Our earliest known example of Law and Morality shows a code of ethics that is enforced not by the threat of damnation but by retribution brought upon the criminal by the other members of his society. Showing a moral foundation that is based not upon religion but upon the concept of criminal acts being repugnant due to their negative consequences. Which is how our own legal system functions; not with fear of damnation but out of fear of rotting away in jail. Also, this concept can be naturally extended to include a system of moral ethics that proposes that all treat others fairly and without cruelty as not doing so is detrimental even to those who are doing the victimizing.

Booyah! In your Fucking Face! Fuckwad!

You poor overweight waste of life, do you REALLY think that Babylon was the begining of human civiliation? Law? Who was talking about law? The shit we are talking about that you clearly missed started long before the walls of Babylon were erected by some million years.

LAW is defined through morality based on a concept of right and wrong. That concept and that morality predates the existence of law by a million years, starting with the 1st humanoids to develope brains large enough to create culture.

Go back to your moms basement and read a little more.

first of all your points dont come close to destroying mine, in fact your points dont make any sense at all. You claim that burying things with the dead some how demonstrates the development of morality. Exactly how explain it to me I simply cant connect the dots, I see no coralation between the two. Its like saying because I eat a cheesburger I own McDonalds.

We never started out by worshiping gods we started out by worshiping natural occuring things like fire and volcano's things at the time we didnt understand which if you follow history pretty much corralates to religion.

hmmm so when we bacame situated we started burying our dead, but when we were moving around we didnt.

hmmmm were not moving away from a rotting corpse and now we have stench, sickness, how would we get rid of something like that, hmm i dont know we could a burn it or b bury it hhmmmmm

That would be Homo Erectus, did you know they didnt bury there dead Billy. Although apperently you think they had moralitity so which is it, burying or moralitity which came first?

You claimed that morality is based on the fear of damnation introduced with Religion. I showed that this is false by pointing out that the Law code of Hammurabi our first known example of a justice system; was not based upon fear of damnation but fear of a very real and immediate form of retribution. Just like our own justice system.
So now you are just changing your argument to claim the distinction that you were referring to morality being produced by religion as a whole but this is clearly not what you had stated previously.

Are you going to continue to froth all over your keyboard or will you soon be going on another month-long hiatus like you did the last time you got into a little Piss-Fest on the forum?

Well, if the elderly person was scheduled to be thrown into an incenerator later that day anyway, I'd defintely say pull all the parts off of them you can get.

Not that comparing a blob of 100 or so stem cells to an old person who has already lived several decades is even reasonable, you, like everyone who is against stem cell research, are stretching.

Children are very giving if nurtured. And calling bullshit seems to be your specialty. As is forwarding preposterous ideals without any evidence

Iron is correct.

I Hate to bring it up; but one of the best retorts to the Conservative side of the Stem Cell debate that I've ever seen was simply: "So thousands dead in Iraq, good; 100 non-human Cells dead, bad."

Well if youre logic were to hold fact, then we would never have stopped eating our dead.

And burying people WITH posessions, like flowers and jewelry doesnt signify SOME sort of affection? Some sort of belief? I dont see any other animals that bury thier dead do you?

Your analogy to Mcdonalds made ZERO sense, I am sorry to say. Buyring the dead with gifts is proof that they felt he needed those items, for something. Even the Egyptians entombed thier leaders with items, sometimes slaves because they felt they would be needed in an afterlife, stop pretending that its about germsn, we didnt know about germs until the 1800s.

Well youre making the mistake of thinking that Homo erectus was the only portion of human evolution before modern humans. Monkeys dont bury thier dead either, and yet we are still decended from them. But somewhere in there, probably with Homo sapiens, we started making tools, and figuring shit out. IE started thinking. With thought came confusion, confusion mixed with fear, lead to us making up gods and spirits to explain things. Thus you have the 1st boogie man gods, if we dont do a rain dance then the rains wont come, etc. Shit like that. Those are the basis for morality. Codes of conduct developed out of fear and confusion.

NO youre summing everything I said, into a single incorrect point. MY point is that Moralitys root were based in fear and confusion. You keep twisting it, your usual strategy. It only seems to you like I am changing the argument because I have said more than 1 thing which is the 1 thing you tried to unsuccessfully zero in on. Regardless, your example of the Babylonians is flawed since humanoids with enough intelligence to have morality in its crudest form were around a million years before them.

Month Long Hiatus? I dont know what you mean, I have been here every day. If you mean did I get tired of listen to you and your fellow castrati damn males and hate themselves (you especialy tubby) then yes I did get tired of that sillyness. So I just le tthe thread go since I had made all my points and didnt fele like arguing emotional diatribe that you are only capible of. Try staying on subject though my hairy obese friend.

Hmm, why stop at a blob of 100 cells? You know you ca get way more cells if you wait a month or 2, its not born so its not real yet right? This is what I am saying, we need limits on how far we are willing to go. There are no more benefits to using embryonic or fetal stem cells than there are using plecenta or birth chorde stem cells, this is about the psychotic abortion rights movement, nothing more.

Iron is an unwashed fatbody nothing more. His point was moot since you cant claim that the 1st moral codes were the ones invented by 1 man a million years after the 1st humans started making tools etc.

You added nothing to this thread os far except silly wispy ideals, an inborn trait to do the right thing. Yeah tell that to people like Ted Bundy and Jeffy Dhamer, by the way they werent insane, before you go there.

Even your only point you made goes against your original statement.

Children are giving. *IF* nurtured. Thanks for proving my point son, dismissed!

Yeah its pretty emotional, and devoid of logic. Its typical liberal moonbat nonsense.

How about, 500,000 dead in Iraq at the Hands of Liberal master Saddam Hussien good, 1000s of Americans dead bad.

Maybe if ya pulled your head form your gaping asshole and saw the bigger picture you wouldnt have to walk around with bullshit on your breath all day.

Heres one:

Millions dead in soviet gulags and siberian Mining camps because of communism good, Capitalists making money and being philanthropists baaaaaaad.