I read, in an article today:

"Those who deny that the Holocaust happened maintain that although it didn’t take place, it should have. The motivation—the deep structure, to use Chomsky’s terminology—of Holocaust denial is the belief that those who suffer are virtuous, and since the Jews are villainous, they couldn’t have suffered."

I don't believe it never took place myself, but I want to figure how others feel about it. It makes me sad that people would deny such a thing if it did exist. And how can someone, numbers of people actually that consider themselves recognised researchers, conclude that the Holucaust in fact didn't take place?

I met a survivor a few years ago who said with sadness that at a talk he gave to students of one school, he was treated badly by the students, because they were taught by their history teacher, that the Holucaust never happened. So basically, that teacher had invited the poor guy to their school to abuse him? To prove what?

The quote is from http://www.dyske.com/default.asp?view_id=804 an article not really regarding the holucaust.

I like that It didn't happen but it should have mentality.
That lets you know pretty quickly what they like to believe.

Kind of like today with people who get overtly political in their beliefs...almost a religious level, or perhaps cult level, of belief in a type of political party.

So scary...but there's enough proof to prove that the Holocaust was a factual event. Horrendous but factual.

Quite true. The Holocaust most assuredly happened.

Though what most "Holocaust Deniers" are actually saying, is that the numbers are wrong (as to how many died) and that certain things (like gas chambers) were not used.

While most people would dismiss these arguments as BULLSHIT, the fact that many scholars are downright ignoring these people has given them room to claim CONSPIRACY and their numbers only grow. If only people would spend some time refuting them, this sort of thing would wash away.

He who does not question reality does not comprehend reality.

Well, I don't know about anyone else but I sure feel enlightened.

Seriously, man, throw in some responses. If you mean to say that people are right to question the Holocaust's existence, go ahead and say so.

Don't hide behind quotation, man. I've got a lot of respect for your posts. Give me something to work with here.

That was more of a rambling bambling bit of boredom...but yes, I do believe people should question if the holocaust did exist, primarily because if you automatically accept something just because you are told or taught that it is that way then you will not mentally grow, but rather be a mindless drone.

Example: If you're living in the south in a certain area you will be taught that the south won the war. If you live mostly anywhere else the basic information is that the north won. Should you therefore not question if the south actually won, and if it is nothing more than an attempt at trying to look "strong and defiant"?

I completely agree with you. In fact, it is because there have been what I call "Holocaust Doubters", that it was admitted that the "gas chambers" at Auswitz (sp) were built (some places will say "rebuilt" though there is a lack of evidence for such) after World War Two.

These Holocaust Doubters demand that the "true" number of fatalities be released and that other camps be checked for "rebuildings" like at Auschwitz (sp).

Oh, yeah, sure, question it. But when you meet people that have "apparently" seen first hand, the suffering and the sadness of it it's really sad to think that people go around calling them liars.

...sorry i'm emotive right now...

and to do with the facts changed later [or completely made up] to help moral [the south/north war example] i guess that's to do with a lot of conspiracies. Sometimes it is good to think about a conspiracy, whether or not something happened. I guess the majority normally rule out conspiracies though, since otherwise, they may be mainstream thought rather than a conspiracy.

Like the moon landings for example!

As I have said before there's a certain amount of evidence that supports that the moon landing was staged. If it was or was not the world may never know, but in the end we should at least question it happened since there was enough motive for it to be staged.

But as I said up there I believe the holocaust happened, although we should question that it did to make certain.

The biggest point I've seen made in argument of the moon landing being faked was the "flapping flag" theory. In the famous photograph, the flag is standing away from the flagpole and looks to be flapping in the breeze. Of course, there is no wind on the Moon, so people look at it and say "Fake! Fraud!"

However, the actual story is much more lackluster. Since there is no wind on the Moon, and they wanted an American flag visible, they had to have it suspended on an L-shaped flagpole, or else it would simply hang limp. Unfortunately, the L-extension off the top of the pole would not completely unfold, thus the flag did not completely unfurl, thus giving it the wrinkled look as if it was "flapping."

As far as the Holocaust goes, given the testimony of many survivors, the films from Auschwitz and other camps, and the accounts of the many allied troops that liberated such camps, I'd say that the amount of firsthand source evidence is entirely too much to be contended. It happened. What's important is to remember that it happened, so it does not happen again.

:jerk:

I have always believed and am quite sure that the majority of those whom deny the halocaust are also pro nazi? correct? although we in the USA commited a much larger scale genocide on native americans then the nazis and still are in denial about that. It is in a sense i think the neo nazi way of seperating themselves from the serious evilness or since I don't beleive in evil act of hatred, so that they can still have fantasys about the great nazi way and all that. I've seen the photos, read about the gas chambers and the issues about that , and how it relates to the origins of the term pinko= as in homosexuals were also sent to camps as well. Also i am ANTI-nazi and pro jewish, those who deny the halocaust probably would deny lynchings in the south were a regular thing due to their DUMB RACIST fears. Two things i would like to see eradicated from the symbols on earth the nazi swastika and the damn confederate white supremist flag. I have some issues and struggles as well with racial memes, however i would hardly like to deny that such an action of great and deliberate harm was commited. The nazis took my german heritage and pissed on it and everything that we who once were bavarians stood for.

The "Nazi Swastika" was used by many different people before the Nazi's adopted it, including some airplanes in America that had it on them.

Then there is a Native American design of equal construct as the swastika.

In the end the "Nazi Swastika" is about as racist or evil as the cross.


One thing that must be stated, before people start being total bastards or idiots, is that Germany went from crap to great in about 10 years. Thanks primarily to Hitler and his staff.

Then Germany went from great to crap in about 10 years. Thanks primarily to Hitler(he ignored his staff a bunch of times).

if we remove the symbols that stand for the atrocities. We just as well might forget that the incidents ever occured.. To keep the symbols around(in some fashion) is a way to remind ourselves of what we should NEVER let happen again.. And to keep a watch for to stop it before it might happen again.. They remind us to keep our guard up and (hopefully) prevent it from happening.

As much as i would enjoy burning them for shear enjoyment, i would rather my son know what atrocities were bestowed on his fellow humans under these symbols.. And by doing so, help him from ever wanting it to happen again..

On behalf of every other culture im here to tell you...........

During WWII in the 30s and 40s a great deal of atrocities and destruction took place. It was not only the Jewish population but also Russia, Greece, Japan, Poland and many others.
I am not denying that the Jewish holocaust ever occured however i am not happy with the way that it has been placed at a greater importance than the other countries who were being faced with even worse atrocities.
Half of the the Greek population was killed at that time and around 25 million Russians were killed.
I understand that the Jewish people were being killed through the Hitler regime but i believe the following:

1. Gas chambers were NEVER used (not enough evidence to prove that it was) even Jaun paul prisac (a holocaust researcher and supporter) said that zyklon B (the chemical supposedly used in the gas chambers) was used 95% of the times to disinfect buildings and clothes becuase of lice and only 5% for homicidal purpurses even this figure of the 5% is being criticised.
2. A figure of six million jews since A rabbi in 1953 estimated that 3 Million jews were killed during those turbulent years. (A figure from the top of his head)

There are many more post another thread if you want them cause i got em.

Let me just make a note: My sympathy's to ALL who perished in world war 2. Not only the JEWS, i feel for all the races that were exposed to this atrocity, but seriously many people only know about one race that were "slaughtered".

The debate is not necessarily about whether or not it happened (at least to those informed), rather it is about how and to what extent the Holocaust happened.

A common belief is that 6 million people were exterminated in the camps. Most "Holocaust Doubters" wish this number taught in so many schools to be greatly reduced, as there is not enough evidence (according to them) to justify such an extreme number.

Another commonly-used argument by these people is that they claim Adolf Hitler did not intend for the Jews to be exterminated in the camps. They use the fact that there is no document or order signed by Hitler himself condemning the Jews to such a fate. All (well, most) of the orders came from Himmler.

Once again, it is not about whether it happened or not. There is enough evidence, eyewitnesses, and documentation of the events to prove that something did happen. This is what most "Holocaust Doubters" argue about:
how and to what extent these events took place. Saying the Holocaust never happened is akin to saying that the slave-trade of Africans never happened.

All right, fair enough. However, I sincerely doubt that any decrease in the numbers is really going to have an impact on the scale of the atrocity committed. If the number is cut in half from 6 million to 3 million, aside from accuracy, I don't see it as significantly changing the view of the event. It's still enough to completely depopulate the state of Hawaii three times over.

Which leaves the question: How few would it have to be to change the significance of it? Hundreds of thousands? Hundreds? Dozens?

Well, if we really did put people on the moon, why can't they figure out how to make a futon that doesn't squeak? They have their priorities all fucked up.

http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/a_real_holocaust.htm

Here, they are, the nutters. This guy can barely contain himself at the prospect of the Jews being kicked out:

'Thus the wandering Jew is about to take to the road once more. In nearly every place where he has stayed, his behaviour has brought on a revolt of the natives, who eventually have told him to choose between the suitcase and the coffin. In Palestine, he will soon have to pack his suitcase. He will make his way back to the rich lands polluted by his holocaustic propaganda. It will be enough for him to bewail a second "Holocaust" and a third Destruction of the Temple. He will demand new reparations and privileges. The "Shoah Business" and "Holocaust Industry" will pick up with renewed vigour but, this time, with a risk of reaching saturation point.'