I thought it perhaps apt to start a thread devoted to the War Of 1812. It seems some people have differing ideals as to how and why this war occured.

We shall start with events which led up to the war which was dubbed 'Madisons War'.

First of all France and Britian two of the worlds greatest powers of th etime were at war with each other. While Canada was certainly suspicious of its Southern nieghbor they were also skeptical about Britians intentions regarding them if a war was won by them. As such before the war broke out America was still hoping that the French-Canadians would support the United States IF the British started shooting americans. This would not be though as we see here--


""The Lachine Riot

In the summer of 1812, Governor General George Prevost is aware of his precarious position in Lower Canada. Prevost is reluctantly preparing for a war he still hopes will be avoided. He knows that if war breaks out, Montreal is likely to be an early American objective. The Americans will attack Montreal in an attempt to cut the St. Lawrence River lifeline between Quebec City and the rest of Canada. If Montreal falls, Upper Canada will be swallowed up by the United States.

There are very few British troops stationed around Montreal. Prevost understands that the fate of Lower Canada lies in the hands of the French-Canadians who make up the majority of its population. The Americans are counting on the Canadiens to turn against the British administration once the shooting starts. In fact, the political and religious elites of French Quebec have warned that American-style democracy and ideas present a serious social and economic threat to French-Canadian culture.
Against this backdrop, Prevost arrives in Montreal. He prepares to conscript two thousand local bachelors into the militia. On July 4, 1812, a number of men from the parish of Pointe Claire protest. When the army tries to forcibly round up the demonstrators, the mob resists and moves toward the village of Lachine, where they hope to seize boats and escape. The army follows and a riot breaks out. Shots are fired from both sides; two civilians are killed. Hundreds of soldiers from the British 49th Regiment descend on the community and begin arresting suspects. Soon, they have more prisoners than they can lock up. Luckily for the local authorities, Prevost is on hand to exercise his renowned diplomatic skills. The Governor General is part Swiss and fluent in French. He is fully aware of the importance of gaining the support of the overwhelming Catholic French-Canadians. With the exception of the ringleaders, he pardons the demonstrators. He also introduces new measures to guarantee linguistic and religious freedoms to French-Canadians. In doing so, Prevost manages to secure an increased measure of trust and respect from Quebecois society. French-Canadians will play an important role in the defense of British North America. The Voltigeurs Canadiens, under the command of Charles-Michel de Salaberry, become one of the most famous Canadian regiments."""

This led to Canada backing the british during the war and also led to 3 American defeats in an attempt to invade parts of Canada.

More to come--- comments are welcome

During the years leading up to the war-- from 1803-1812 the British navy impressed upwards of 10,000 Americans to work on thier ships. The British would waylay American cargo ships thinking they were supplying the French and would capture thier cargo and impress thier crews into thier own or kill them.

A slight gloss over of our losses at the outbreak of the war...

"""In the first phase of the war along the border in 1812 the United States suffered a series of reverses. Fort Michilimackinac fell (6 August), Fort Dearborn was evacuated (15 August), and Fort Detroit surrendered without a fight (16 August). American attempts to invade Canada across the Niagara (October) and toward Montreal (November) failed completely. Brig. Gen. William Henry Harrison's move to recapture Detroit was repulsed (January 181, but he checked British efforts to penetrate deeper into the region at the west end of Lake Erie, during the summer of 1813. Meanwhile, in April 1813, Maj. Gen. Henry Dearborn's expedition captured Fort Toronto and partially burned York, capital of Upper Canada. On 27 May Brig. Gen. Jacob Brown repelled a British assault on Sackett's Harbor. An American force led by Col. Winfield Scott seized Fort George and the town of Queenston across the Niagara (May-June 181, but the British regained control of this area in December 1813. A two-pronged American drive on Montreal from Sackett's Harbor and Plattsburg in the fall of 1813 ended in a complete fiasco. Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry defeated the British fleet on Lake Erie (10 September 181, opening the way for Harrison's victory at the Thames River (5 October), which reestablished American control over the Detroit Area."""

The first of the defeats was Fort Mackinac. A short understanding of what took place there--

"""At the start of the War of 1812, the fort was manned by a small U.S. garrison of approximately 60 men under the command of Lt. . British General Isaac Brock, having anticipated the start of war, sent a canoe party 1200 miles (1900 km) to confirm that a state of war existed. The American commander Hanks, however, received no notification of the start of the conflict. On the morning of July 17, 1812, a British and Native American combined force of seventy war canoes and ten landed on the north end of the island, 2 mi (3.2 km) away from the fort. The British quietly removed the village inhabitants from their home and trained two cannon at the fort. The American commander, taken completely by surprise, realized he was badly outnumbered, and fearing a massacre by the Native Americans on the British side, accepted the British offer of surrender without a fight. The American force was taken prisoner and the island inhabitants were made to swear an oath of allegiance as subjects of the United Kingdom. After capturing the island, the British, under the command of Colonel of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, also built a stockade and blockhouse on the island's highest point, renaming it as Fort George. ""

The prior from Wikipedia.

So far from all I can see of the facts it certainly looks as if the United States was under an attempted invasion from the coordinated efforts of the British, Canadians, and the First Peoples Nation.

The only reason President Madison declared a state of war was because the United States lost over 1,000 ships in the intervening years by piracy from the English. As such he really had no choice but to declare war on Britian.

Don't you hate it when you spend a lot of time on a post and nobody replies? I feel bad, so this is a pity reply.

Yeah, declare war on Britian.

However in regards to your first statement, do we read English differently? From your first post alone:

US invading Canada

US invading Canada #2

As well as

Mention of US attempting to invade Canada #3

If you go back in history past the War of 1812 itself to the American Revolution & the immigration of British loyalists up to Canada, it sheds a whole different light on the war of 1812 as well. Will post about that in greater detail tomorrow, for now I have to sleep.

i would rather you withheld any reply if you have nothing to add. This was in regards to another conversation i was having and instead of continuing within that thread I decided to start this one.

Sin the United States invaded Canada AFTER War was declared due to the fact that Canada allied with the British. So OF COURSE we decided to attempt an invasion as an answer to the invasion of the United States. Please get your history right

War was declared with the British, not Canada.
Yes Canada allied itself, because we were full of loyalists that had left your country, however if you look, there was also a lot of reluctance on their part to turn guns on what they still felt were their fellow countrymen.
Yes you invaded, but it wasn't in answer to any invasion on Canada's part, it was the british -navy- who shocked everybody by leaving their ships and marching inland to burn down the whitehouse. Not Canadians.

War was declared on the British and Canada was a British ally and was harboring and actively helping England against the United States as such the United States attempted to invade Canada in order to stem the tide of british invaders. With the help of the Native Americans the Canadians were able to bravely defeat the first 3 attempts at invasion. Nor was the burning down of Washington very shocking as the british had already had several successful invasive victories.
It took quite awhile to get people from point A to point B back in the day and as such there were not enough American Troops in Washington to defeat the british invasionary forces.

After Fort Mackinac's defeat the indians grew bolder as did the british. next to fall was Fort Dearborn. Here is an overview

""Fort Dearborn


As word spread of the British victory at Mackinac, the Indians began to gather around other American forts. They gathered at what is now Chicago near Fort Dearborn, where Captain Nathan Heald commanded the small garrison of about 50 men. In response to the order from General Hull to withdraw to Fort Wayne, he first distibuted much trade goods to the Indians in return for promises of safe conduct, and then set out on the morning of August 15th with his soldiers, a handful of local settlers and militia, and their families. At the head of the column was Captain William Wells, a veteran Indian fighter who served under Anthony Wayne; he had come from Fort Wayne with 30 friendly Miami braves to lead the way back. The garrison did not trust the Indians; prophetically the fife and drums played the funeral march as they started out.
The hostile Indians waited in ambush behind some nearby sand dunes. Wells saw them and gave the alarm, just before an attack that killed about half the regulars. The others rallied and charged them driving them back across the dunes- but in the process became separated from the baggage train where most of the women and children rode. The Chicago militia guarded that part of the column. Militia and families were quickly overwhelmed and most of them slaughtered. In the fight Wells was killed, scalped, and his body was beheaded. His Miami Indians had long since fled. The remaining soldiers held a parley in which the hostile Indians promised that if the Americans surrendered none of them would be harmed. They agreed. and as they were led back to Fort Dearborn they passed the baggage train where they saw the women and children "lying naked with principally all their heads off." Once back at the fort, the Indians soon began to torture and kill their captives. The few survivors were taken away in all directions after the departing Indians had burned the fort. Both Captain and Mrs. Heald were badly wounded, but survived the battle, ending it in the hands of different groups of Indians. The family of John Kinzie, a nearby fur trader the Indians considered a neutral, waited in a boat near shore in case they had to flee. Mrs. Kinzie saw Mrs. Heald's predicament and sent one of her husband's clerks to trade an old mule and some whiskey to the band holding her, so that they would transfer to the one that held her husband. Eventually the Healds escaped and after a three hundred mile voyage in a canoe made their way to Mackinac. There Captain Roberts, the British commander, gave them a small sailboat and sent them to Detroit."""

July 11th proclamation by General Hull to Canadian Citizens 1812.

""
INHABITANTS OF CANADAAfter thirty years of peace and prosperity, the Unitied States have been driven to arms. The injuries and aggressions, the insults and indignities of Great Britain have once more left no alternative but manly resistance or unconditional submission. The army under my command has invaded your country. The standard of the union now waves over the territiry of Canada. To the peaceful and unoffending inhabitants it brings neither danger nor difficulty. I come to find enemies, not to make them; I come to protect not to injure you ... I have a force which will break down all opposition, and that force is but the vanguard of a much greater. If, contrary to your own interest, and the just expectations of my country, you should take part in the approaching contest, you will be considered and treated as enemies, and the horrors and calamities of war will stalk you ...""
This was printed and distributed to a great deal of the Canadian Territory.

That article which mentions the "hostile indians" is really something else alright.

Are you aware that the practice of scalping is something that the first nations people learned from the European settlers/explorers?

Niether one of those "points" is at issue.

The first of the American Invasion forces was succesful at first but was driven off by British Forces and Canadian Militia. The fighting was bloody and courageous on all sides.

"""
The Battle for Queenston Heights


On October 13th 1812, War came to the Niagara Frontier. American troops lead by General Stephan Van Rensselaer, crossed the river at Queenston in a surprise attack and captured the Redan battery. It was a large cannon located on the Heights, which was perceived to be a threat to the village of Lewiston New York.
General Brock was in Niagara, in it's present day Niagara-on-the-Lake when he heard of the American Invasion. On his horse Alfred he rode quickly to find part of the American Force pinned down on the rivers edge.
Some of the Americans lead by Captain Wool had gone along the river bank where they found a way up the steep gorge, they climbed to the top and captured the Redan battery by attacking from the rear. The Americans turned the cannon so it was directed at Queenston.
Brock gathered his British troops and Canadian militia and attempted to charge up the Heights against fierce American musket fire. He was forced to order a retreat, but ordered another charge almost immediately. He was leading his men with his sword held high when an American sniper took aim and shot him. The musket ball penetrated his heart and he fell to the ground mortally wounded. He died almost instantly. The counterattack faltered, then retreated down the slope. An aide to Brock, Colonel John Macdonell, arrived with two more companies, renewed the attack, and reached the abandoned gun postion on the heights. Macdonell was killed at about this point.
The Americans on the Heights began to fortify their postition against a British Frontal attack up the escarpment.
British General Roger Hale Sheaffe was leading a British column from Fort George along the river road, and he made a detour back off the river road to remain out of the Americans site. And to bring his troops up the escarpment by a little used path a mile or so west of Queenston arriving at the top of the Heights out flanking the American forces.
By mid-afternoon when British Major General Sheaffe arrived with a relief force there were more than one thousand American troops on the Heights.
Sheaffe found that a small detatchment of British troops and Indians from Chippawa were harrassing the Americans with sparatic attacks during which the Indians filled the air with war cries.
The Americans were in a caldisack with the gorge and escarpment on two sides and in their rear and the British in front of them. After more troops and militia arrived from Fort Erie and the forces were about even with about one thosand men each, Sheaffe ordered an attack. After a single volley the British troops moved forward with two hundred Indians who filled the air once more with their piercing war cries. The American Line was shattered. Colonel Winfield Scott tried to organize an orderly retreat to Queenston Landing, but his army was getting cut to pieces. After one half hour or so he called for surrender and the fighting gradually stopped.
The British won the day at Queenston Heights by Sheaffe's prompt counter attack.
The Americans were unable to persuade the thousands of their militia at Lewiston to cross the river.
The Battleground
The Aftermath
American Losses:
958 killed, wounded or missing of which 450 were regular army.
Colonel Winfield Scott was taken Prisoner and later paroled on the condition that he not take part again in active Military service.
British Losses:
112 killed, wounded or missing and the British Indian losses were 13 of which 3 all chiefs were killed.
For a detailed account of this battle read "A Very Brilliant Affair: The Battle of Queenston Heights by Robert Malcomson





CLICK HERE to see the monumet to Vrooman's Battery. CLICK HERE to see the plaque for the Battle of Queenston Heights. The plaque is located in Queenston Heights Park, Queenston Ontario, Canada ""