okay. let's say there's some guy and he rapes people. I mean, he just rapes person after person after person. and he doesn't stop until he's in jail and he's going to die. and he knows he rapes people and he doesn't care or is fine with it. now he's dying. but this person believes in Jesus Christ and God. but he's raped people his whole entire life. when he dies, he goes to Heaven, right?

if he does, why? he hasn't done anything to deserve it. he RAPED people. but because he believes in Christ and God, he gets to go to Heaven. what about people who never raped anyone or never even cursed? they have to be in Heaven with a rapist. doesn't seem right. doesn't seem fair. (although I heard from a pastor, the word "fair" isn't really mentioned or discussed in the Bible. true?)

and what about me? I've never raped anyone and don't plan to. I'm never going to murder someone, commit a crime, or do drugs. but because I don't believe in God, I go to Hell and my rapist goes to Heaven.

right.

you're funny!

if you don't believe in god = don't believe in "hell" and "heaven", no?
if that guy rapes people - that must be a sin = he goes to hell.
at least that's the way i understood. or maybe giving god enough money will get him out? or does raping count as "love your fellow man"?? the way i imagine, what's heaven to christians must be hell to me anyway.
(i stopped making sence since ever, so don't mind me.)

nice post, meredith. see what happened? you had to go and make me register

I agree with what cross said.. but it depends on a lot of other stuff, I guess. Who knows? I'm no good at religion.

hello fucknut!!! you don't believe in god so why are you fretting? your gonna die and rot. and your rapist friend over there he, believes in god and the same thing is going to happen to him. he'll just be dellusional when it happens. and if you want to refer to theology then god dammit the reason you go to hell and your rapist goes to heaven is because a price was paid to cleanse his little perverted rapist ass!!! it's sort of like an apply and get a free vacation. you don't apply then your fucked, you apply and you get the vacation, weather you deserve it or not.

and tell your pastor he's a fucknut too, the word justice(aka fair) is all over his fucking fiction book of the millenia.

Hi Deconformist,

My brief response is that your premise would be flawed. Let me explain. It is entirely possible and has probably happened that a person(s) CLAIMED to be a Christian while committing horrible acts (I know this will open a can of worms).

BUT, a true Christian, one who has surrenedered his life to Jesus Christ, would not commit such acts. Or, for the sake of argument, a Christian would definately NOT go on committing such acts. God would not allow it.

The reason being a true Christian has the Spirit of the Living God within Him. The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives within the Christian and convicts that person of the sin in his life.

It has been said that sometimes a person can be more miserable AFTER they become a Christian than they were before. The reason is because God wants us to live a life that is holy and acceptable to Him. If and when we continue to sin.....commit wrongs knowingly and willingly....He will let us know by His Spirit living within us. If we choose to continue to disobey Him, the worse it gets. His desire is for us to have the blessed life He intended. It is the same as a loving parent who disciplines his child when he or she has done wrong and continues to do so. The discipline is not fun, but in the long run, it is for our benefit.

So, all of that was to say that a TRUE Christian would not be committing the acts your put forth in your hypothesis.

I know that is not a perfect answer and maybe not even what you were looking for, but I would be glad to discuss it further if you wish.

Sincerely,
Samichking

ROFL, those should have been DD, it's wierd reading that under blue's name.

As you can tell, we're all nice, sincere, helpful people here...

When I was younger, I've grown up around a few catholics which is why I know a thing or two about their beliefs. Catholics believe that even if you're a rapist, a thief, a murderer, etc. you still have a chance of entering heaven if you repent or better yet, regret your actions and ask for forgiveness (with your heart). By the time you die, if you have asked for forgiveness and if you have believed in God, then there is a chance that you will go to Heaven. Don't screw me. I'm only stating this from what I think I've learned.

We are all measured and judged according to our own sins, you will pay for yours and he will pay for his, there is no saying that just because he repents then he's garanted a place in heaven.

I did mention that I've only stated what I've said judging from what I've learned. I do believe that everyone does have a place in heaven, but I also believe that those places can be wasted depending on what we've done. *shrugs* I never was one to give much thought about heaven, hell, etc.

we're gonna die and rot and rot and rot. well i'm atheist, so honestly i don't care, and if you don't believe in that junk then you wouldn't be worried.

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yeah. it doesn't matter if my rapist claims to be Christian if he truly believes he is one. it doesn't matter what he does as long as it's written and he knows that if he says, "I love Jesus, I love God," before he dies, he goes up.

what's a true Christian? can you give me an example of one? I hardly think one exists, in our world today. look around. and hell, if I was this rapist, and I liked what I was doing and knew I would get into Heaven anyway, I would continue with my ways. because it would be okay in the end, as I said before.

your mistake might have been "God would not allow it." why wouldn't he? he allows a lot of things. why wouldn't he allow this in particular? I mean, I could argue both ways. God can't go around using his "powers." or else, no one would have any faith. I guess that's why he doesn't use them at all.

what if my rapist believed he did have the Holy Spirit within him? he just does horrible things. he's a person. he's fallible. so are Christians (as they are human). so it's okay.

so Christ will just make whatever my rapist has left of a conscience harder for him to bear until he dies and goes to Heaven. sweet, I guess, for him. not for me.

to sum it all up, if my rapist believes he's a true Christian, then all that applies applies. he goes to Heaven.

btw, I'm not trying to piss you off. I like discussions/arguements. your response was very good. I hope mine was somewhere near as concise.

the other posts I think can be resonded to with this - I'm agnostic. sounds like an excuse to some, but oh well. can't exactly help it. thanks for the responses.

P.S. Samichking - what about the "fair" thing in the Bible? any insight on that?

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your response is cool because it's mad and made sense to me. I'm one of those crazy people that need to know. that know too much, actually. I like your analogy. very cool. that's all.

if he points the finger at jesus, and tells god that all the sins are on him, then jesus suffers and the rapist goes to heaven. that's what jesus is there for. human justice is not divine justice. blood is spilled for blood, but in the mystery of the lamb's blood, as i understand it, no one is sure how human he was, and how divine, and so he is a no-fail fast-acting cleanser.
i believe that those who feel they can be forgiven feel no pressure to sin, whereas those who fear retribution or wrath are most nervously compelled toward violence, as though dared. had this hypothetical rapist known of the insignificance of his actions sooner, he might not have let them obsess and posess him.
perhaps the rapist was repeatedly raped in a past life, and justice is sorted out through reincarnation, and not in heaven and hell, and he's merely causing the same suffering to his former attackers that they caused to him. in some sense, we are all god, and we do all these things to ourselves as we do them to eachother. getting angry at a judge upon a distant cloud is simply futile.

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how does Jesus suffer? Jesus is in Heaven. we're on earth. the way I see it, WE suffer. I see that Jesus is a crutch that people hang on to. that they go through their whole lives ignoring and then, before they die, say "Wait! I love you Jesus! I want to go to Heaven!" when they have done NOTHING to deserve it. that's my main problem I suppose.

human justice is shit.

I like what your ideas. don't agree with most (reincarnation, the idea that things get sorted out within themselves) but that's a cool way of looking at things.

yes, i see what you mean about jesus being a crutch. psychologically, his principle of healing through faith was validated by freud, who cured many cases of hysterical blindness and paralysis just by getting people to "confess" the source of their shame, which i guess equals sin. people tend to use jesus as they would any banner under which to march about on their merry, bloody way. i can't claim to be a christian, i only call things as i see them, having studied theology for a few years.
as for jesus being in heaven, and not suffering, i guess at the present that would be true. i was thinking more along the lines of god turning up the juice on his son's pain-o-meter as he hung on the cross everytime somebody sinned after that point, just to satisfy those of us who know, as you stated, that human justice is shit, and yet cry out for some sort of payback when wronged.
"oh, so somebody stole your wallet? here, son, have a few more volts."
"thanks again, dad."

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exactly. maybe that's what Jesus is there for. he's blame for human pain and suffering and makes people feel better. it seems so...dumb. I'm sorry I can't think of a better word, but that fits. if that's the case, boy, I wish I was a Christian. life would be so much easier. something bad happen? it's cool - there's Jesus to take it. you make a booboo? s'all good, let Jesus take it and then some. sweet.

okay, enough ranting.