There seems to be much confusion about the origins of Satan and Lucifer. I have read up a little on the matter, and here's some of the information I found.

The earliest introduction of the devil is found in the Old Testament. But the descriptions are many and often confusing. In the Jews holy scripts we are told about Satan, in Greek diabolos, and Lucifer, the lightbringer. They represent the original dividing of the evil, though in the Middle Ages their appearances and functions melted into one.

In the earliest Jewish scripts the Evil is hardly present at all. Fair enough, the snake tempts Adam and Eve, and eventually leads to their downfall, but nowhere is it written that the Devil is the tempter. That is a much later Christian interpretation of the story. In the –Old testament Satan is mentioned not as a single entity, but in the form of a satan , meaning enemy of God. It is reasonable to assume that it was not just one, but many such enemies, satans.

The Jewish God was far from a loving and forgiving god. He was also the God of revenge, and his retribution upon the sinners was often cruel and merciless. When the highest God was also the one to bestow death and suffering upon earth, there was little need for an additional evil power. But over the centuries God becomes more and more good, and the devil figure grows in importance. According to religion scientists, this happened because of the heavy influence from the Persian demonology. Satan appeared as a single entity only after the Jews Babylonian exile in the 500’s BC.

Later on, Satan’s individualisation carries on, until he eventually becomes the great enemy, not only of God, but of Man as well. As his reign grows stronger, he gets competition from not only another devil figure, but a horde of small and big demons as well. Above all, his main competitor is Lucifer, the light bringer. Lucifer is described among other places in Isaiah 14, 12-14.

The story of Lucifer is in many ways similar to the Greek legend of Prometheus, who stole Zeus’ fire and gave it to the humans, thus making them less dependant on the gods. Lucifer is the Archangel who put himself above God by refusing to worship Gods newest creation, Man. In the Jewish-Christian way of thinking, pride is considered one of the seven deadly sins.

When Christianity appeared as an organized religion in the first few centuries after Christ, they adopted a well-developed hellmythos from the Jews.

Hopefully this rambling contributes to shed some light on this… if not, at least it gave me something to do.

Nicelly researched Clearwitch, so i'll add a few thoughts.

"The story of Lucifer is in many ways similar to the Greek legend of Prometheus, who stole Zeus’ fire and gave it to the humans, thus making them less dependant on the gods. Lucifer is the Archangel who put himself above God by refusing to worship Gods newest creation, Man. In the Jewish-Christian way of thinking, pride is considered one of the seven deadly sins. "
Quoteing Clearwitch

Now consider, the Archangel's were supposably appointed by God himself. So in essence, Lucifer is not necessarily evil... he is closer to good. And the story of Prometheus, in essence is the same concept of what the last dead sea scroll was. The Movie Stigmata was also based on the last found, and oldest remaining dead sea scroll. All of this, which is the basic concept that "God",
is within all of us. We have to find the love, faith and pride we place in the idea of a "God", within our selves.

This is what the Vatican and the Christian Church dont want you to do. If we just have faith in ourselves, their all out of a job !

I thought that the evil that Lucifer did was what caused him to be punished, oh well. *shrug* Either way, Rudolf Steiner (I hope SOMEBODY knows who that is) said that Lucifer was not only the brigner of liught, but also of romantic love and poetry and music. Of course, this post has no argued point, but it is rather in agreement to the last two posts.

but what evil did Lucifer do, guy? All he ever did to be banished, according to my sources at least, was refusing to bow down before Adam. Lucifer thought he was better than Adam, he was created of fire, while Man was created from dirt. He felt he was better than Man, in every way. Now I admit that is narcissistic, and self-centered, but not evil...

Pride Is a sin, and for an angel... well, the more perfect one is, the more imperfect an imperfection makes one. On top of that, there has always been competition between angels and man for superiority. Like when Moishe was tested in the desert by one of each rank of angels.

but does pride make you evil?

Does murder? The point is that anger is the sin that causes murder. Pride si the sin that causes vaingloriousness. Lucifer's sin was pride, but his evil was direct defiance of God.

I admit he probably didnt make the wisest decision, putting himself above a God so obviously lacking any sense of humour...anyhow, we'll probably never agree on this. I still think it takes a little more than just a cause of hot temper to be evil.

As for Rudolf Steiner, didn't he found the Steiner schools? I thought about sending my kids there when they get older, but then i thought against it. They would have to attend regular schools when they reach 16, and that's a hard transition.

And it has made me one of the most creative people (atleast what most peopel tell me) that most folks know. But besides that, it is a big transition, and the playground attention is pretty generally lacking. But it's by and large worth it.

A friend of mine went to the Steiner school as well. but when the 9 years were up and he had to attend a regular school, he couldn't handle it. So he dropped out. I believe creativity lies in the person, not the education, so I intend to do my best to encourage my children myself.

*screeech...* back on topic now! *whips*

Well, I know I was always creative, btu in another school, it would ahve been stiffled. ANYHOO........ I think Lucifer strangthened his sentence by introducign carnal pleasure to humanity. Which assosiates him with the snake. Remember, the snake was punished, too. In another interpretation of the smae text that come up with "Eve and the Serpent ate fruit" was "Eve and the Serpent had sexual relations." Whatever that implies.

'carnal pleasure'? I guess you mean sex here? Lucifer wasn't the one to introduce sex to humans. When Adam and Eve ate the apples, they got knowledge, including knowledge about sex. They started lusting, etc. The snake talked Eve into tasting the apple, but if you re-read my first post, Lucifer is not the snake. If we assume the Bible follows a loose time-line, Lucifer was long since banished at that time.

Lucifer represents a simliar character to the Serpent. And the way I interpret the tempting of Eve is that the Serpent was the quardian of the tree, then defied his post under God by GIVING Eve the apple, not tempting her with it. I think that all life strives to better itself mroe in the image of God, and Eve may have asked for the apple, the Serpent then giving it. Which would explain why the sentence Eve suffered was so great. Because she then gave the apple to Adam.

Which only proves my point, there are more than one evil present in the christian religion. The serpent had nothing to do with Lucifer...or Satan.

What makes them all so similar is their capacity to harm, tempt and punish humanity.

But Lucifer did nothing against Man, except refusing to throw himself at Adams feet. Until the church merged Lucifer and Satan into one, Lucifer was just the fallen angel. His anger was directed toward God, not Man. So I dont agree that he is in any way similar to Satan and the serpent.

That Prometheus is still chained to the rock, every day, having his innards eaten by vultures, then regenerated to be eaten again, somewhere in the tellurian, still suffering for one day's work against the gods.

Yup. But then again, no one said zeus was a nice guy.

Int he sense of Promethean efforts, Lucifer and the Serpent are very similar characters.