I hope I don't startle the old mainstays of the forum, But I've lost faith. Dig this, it happened on my very recent trip to Utah. Ha. Well, it's a weighty statement, but I don't believe in God any more. It was a long time coming, but in a way, I'm glad. It's been miserably depressing and disillusioning, but I have to be honest with myself, and for the past year, I've felt like more and more of a fraud whenever I talked to people about God because I really don't have any way of knowing if it's true.

It's sort of hard, because I still want to be a moral person. I still believe that there is such a thing as the good life, but it's been a very veyr long time since I believed it was a permanent thing. I feel dishonest believing in permanency. Happiness is temporary and virtues cannot hold fast forever. I still know what right and wrong are, and what things are virtuous and what is self-destructive and wasteful. However, God was the reason I gave for these definitions. Now I have to stand up on these beliefs alone.

I don't know where I'm going with this really. It's a big thing for me, and while I don't want to be anyone but who I am, the limits have changed.

Why do you need god to have morals, honor, and a sense of decency? Where does it say that one cannot live a life filled with all three yet devoid of god or gods?

I know that I can. Years ago, when I was faced with the question, "Is it right because God says so or does God say it because it's right?" I chose the second. So, I've always thought that right and wrong didn't hinge on God, but now I'm lacking a narrative. I feel sort of lost.

Write your own as best befits your sense of purpose.

what's yours?

I've lost my faith in a lot of things too, Guy....and it's a weird state of being most of the time. I always wonder what the next life has in store for us....but I do have to say, though, that I use my own compass when it comes to "fucked up/not fucked up" ways and means.

if you have faith in yourself, why do you need to have faith in anything else?

that would be my advice in figuring things out on your own...free from the restrictions of any dogma, find out what you want in life, and why you no longer need an external deity to reach it.

If you're a good person, you won't have to worry about going bad without a god in your life.

Congratulations! Welcome to the world of Logic! I think you'll enjoy your stay with us.

Hahaha. You're such an asshole, Frog, I love your shit.

Whatever makes me feel good

You could always turn to philosophy. I'm fond of Aristotlean ethics myself...

Also, there is a lot written in religious texts that makes for a good ethical base, whether or not you actually have faith; quite a bit of philosphy was rooted in a religious base, it still makes for a good, logical basis for an ethical code.

I've lost my faith, it sucks because every member of my family is christain and they get very upset when they find out about my religion.

i've been, learning about faith lately, coming to some new understandings..and scarily enough God, himself. I think why people lose their faith is they are looking for it, through the wrong things, using the paradigms of others to expand their, belief...rather than coming to terms with what they need for their faith and finding it from there.

christianity is a good example...

at it's base, is a book...that has other people's opinions on god, and how to achieve them..."The Bible writers were subject to their own prejudices and humanity, and for that reason, there are cases where some Bible writers have given the impression that anyone with flaws of a nature they considered especially serious, would never enter God's kingdom."

yeah, this may be unusual coming from me...but i've recently been reassessing my, spiritual values...i love everything about being a witch, but i've drifted away from those that made that a spiritual thing for me...i guess i'm rediscovering my gods, learning how to forgive a popular God for those who represent him...and now it's working out the true hell, which interestingly enough, two christians can each have an entirely different perception of what that hell is...

i like the one i linked through the quote...it sort of makes those who've i've dealt with for years shoving the idea of a hellfire and torture hell, really isn't, practical, according to their own, book.

so my original advice still stands, i've just now started on a path to a different understanding of personal spirituality and how it relates to, any god.

Hit the nail right on the head there, in my opinion. As I posted in another thread, organized religion has historically placed man-made intrepretation and self-serving dogma (including fear tactics) around the fundamental belief in order to preserve their internal power structures - which has taken its believers far from the original pure intent of the underlying belief.

For those who have lost faith, what were your expections of God that left you so disillusioned?

i've had to answer this question, in my recent seeking and came to the conclusion that it was the roman catholic church that let me down...god was just sort of the patsy that was easier for me to blame...

i've actually been reading the bible, might as well get to know what i'm so against...and actually i've come to the conclusion god is amazingly patient...i would have sent the israelites back to egypt when they started whining about the bitter water and mana...i suppose god's not the sort of parent that has to say..."don't make me turn the car around" but after all the miracles he pulled off to free them and they whine because they don't have sweet water and are travelling through the wilderness with egyptian gold...i suppose i can understand why he lets us get away with so much.


we actually like the water and make our own mana.

I'm currently in the process of applying at a college in Tennessee . . . I'm wondering if I should indicate that my official religion is Buddhism as Atheists (Which I technically am as I do not fully accept the existence of any religious deities) are considered even lower then Muslims:

a person zealously believing in something, show's they have some sort of faith, how do those that believe in nothing ever find hope of faith?

In my case, I feel that I've been content to observe what I see and the only thing that I have seen is that existence radiates with a current of energy. Whatever that may be.
It seems like the same old narrow-minded shit to me that many people view independence of thought and belief as being a negative thing.

i agree with the general theme in the thread, man, either god doesn't exist, in which case you can certainly be good without faith, or he does exist, and has given you the power to be a good person whether you believe in him or not. i can't promise you salvation, nobody can, but the power to live a good life and do the right thing is something everyone can do without god's help. it all really boils down to freedom of choice. have faith in yourself first, and god second. that's how he would want it.