I more often need a way to find the will.

i can regulate my secreations but i'm worried i'll get hairy palms...
I still don't really believe in free will..society is set up to be a machine where everybody gets fed the same ideas in school and pushed into thier own little box with a label saying Military or Bank Clerk etc etc etc if you try and break out of the box you will either be considered mad or end up being restricted by the limitations imposed by society...e.g a guy i know in london who is perfectly sane but walks about naked, just to be different..obviously he gets arrested but why should we impose these kind of controls on people if they don't harm others, he might die of hypothermia but kids aren't upset by nudity cos they don't care (except to point and laugh) and adults have seen it all before..however not sure i'd want to sit on a bus after he's been sitting on it...hmmm yuk

what you seem to fail in realizing is that society is made by what the majority of people want...that's why subculture is such an appealing aspect to individuals...rather than sitting around complaining about society, they live their life how they want...the only way society is going to change is through the people and with time...and once again you are assuming all people would not be bothered by it...what gives one person he right to violate the rights of another?

but who defines those rights?

sadly a majority of people lack the basic descency to judge for themselves and an understanding to respect others...so it falls on government representatives, that are voted by people to make laws that apply to what the majority want...

mmm... kindof clashes with my ethical egoism... but also kinda not... i reserve my judgement

Don't you mean 'what the majority of people 'think' they want' So often I've found people follow what they believe 'society' expects of them when individually they believe differently. We follow a mass delusion of how we think we're meant to behave, want, expect, but the sucessful individual follows his own drummer. An example being our consumerism and materialism. Societal sucess is determined by your wealth, car, house, looks, position. These things may be easier to measure but are they the right basis for judging a persons contribution to the whole?

well if they lack the talent to think for themselves, than it's no ones fault but their own. People do not have to do anything they do not want to, unless it violates a law or a persons basic rights. There is no law against being an individual, many people do not know how to do it in a healthy manner.

But many societies have to exist on the fact that they have to do what they don't want. Look to China, Russia, etc....in the west we believe we are free while we are manipulated by the government through the media instead of the milatary.


"Always free to choose, never free enough to find."

i'm not sure what point you are trying to make with those countries for examples...but as for your media refrence, it's back to the person, if they believe the version they hear presented by the media as fact without looking at all the sides, than it's a fault they bring upon themselves...people can be sheep or not, smart people know how to do what they want without drawing attention to themselves...how do you think serial killers get away with multiple murdered subjects, some over ten before they're even caught..they have the ability to be the guy next door. And they are doing anything they want...even being sub human...it's all in the mind...the glass is half full or half empty depending on the person.

China during the cultural revolution as late as the 60'sand 70's. The people where ordered to burn, destroy any previously created arts, books, buildings, schools, even trees and nature where considered corruptive. The masses died in a, dob in your neighbour campaign or you would be taken away as a sympathizer. This is not what the people wanted. Living under the rules of the little red book. Governments become all powerful with the divide and conquer rule. Such a small portion of the world is truly free. There is no place for individuality in China. No doubt things are slowly changing but even now there is an undercurrent of fear. Don't forget Tianamen Square.

not to mention the killing fields in Cambodia

Yeah, and them...hehehe ta ssecret.

Jesus..I must have been really tired when I wrote that...barely cohesive.

An important part to note about this is the role of parents, educators and elders to a childs personality and the developement of their character. In the first place, the child has no seperate identity during the early years of his life; his psyche is a reflection of his parents psyches. Everyone knows the problems when a child grows older and how their connection with their parents can alter. Nearly equally affective is teachers. The influence of a teacher on the personality development of his pupils is of equal importance to his influence on their intellectual and scholastic accomplishments. I talk to homeless people often, most blame themselves for heir troubles, others blame their parents. Society of course is something else, in the far east, for example, intrversion and intuition are favored, wheras in th west extraversion and thinking are valued.

Humans seek simple answeres. Life is not simple. Even staying alive isn't always simple. Freedom is a luxury.

Physically maybe....any other is a choice.

We are fed information from the day we are born onwards. Television shapes us education hammers us, society molds us. Many even feel guilty just touching themselves these days. Freedom is nowhere to be found.

Are you saying there is no free will? You underestimate the human condition.

Yeah...he's a smeg head ...but i do believe humans consider themselves freer than they really are..even our brains tend to do things automaticaly..the conscious mind is mostly an illusion. The self that you percieve may be nothing like what you really are.