Well hello Stranger! Nice of you to wander into this thread.

I'm going to take these few brief but special moments we have together, to tell you a little story.

Now, a few years ago, there lived a boy named Tommy. Tommy looked like ur average 13 year old boy, but Little Tommy was a troubled youth. His dad killed himself when Tommy was 9, and the little boy found the body in the bathroom.

After that he went to live with his Mom. She was a devout Catholic, and wanted to make sure Little Tommy was raised properly. But Little Tommy was always cutting school, getting into fights, was arrested once for shoplifting, and was always taking the Lords name in Vain.

Little Tommy is sitting in his room rolling a joint, when he hears a knock on his bedroom door. He quickly hides everything and unlocks the door and cracks it open.

"What Mom?" Little Tommy asks in a whiny, annoyed voice.

"Don't forget to set your alarm, were going to Church tomorrow Morning!" Little Tommy's mom says with an excited voice.

"Awww Mom, Fuck church. I rather sleep in tomorrow come on!"

"Randy Thomas Phillips! How dare you say such words!" His mother says in a stern voice, and slaps him across the face.

"You say 10 hail Maries young man, and then you better be ready for church tomorrow or I'm going to skin your hide!" She screams, and then shuts the door.
Little Tommy is pissed at this point.

"Hail Mary my ass." He mutters, then finishes rolling his joint then crawls out the window to go smoke. He is walking down along the road, and its 110 PM. He has already smoked his joint by now. He is having a good time, a little paranoid about passing cars and noises but not too bad. That’s when his subcounceses says something,

"Tommy, you were supposed to say 10 hail Marys, pray, and then get a good night's rest for church tomorrow." A voice inside his head says.

"Yeah but, all that God shit is kind of, I dunno, boring and whatever." Tommy tells himself, and keeps going.
Tommy is now walking on the road. Its dark outside and a drunken man speeding down the roads bravely cutting the sharp turns of the roads, slams on the accelerator around the next turn and before he even has time to re-act his truck runs over Little Tommy. He slams on his breaks and the truck skids. He gets out and runs over to the boy's lifeless mangled body, bleeding alot. The drunken man panics and gets back into his car and speeds away. He is later arrested.

Little Tommy is very surprised when he wakes up in hell. He remembers the last conversation he had with his mother, and is over whelmed with sorrow. These days Little Tommy wishes every second that he would have listened to his mother's words, but now it’s too late.

But its not too late for you. Learn from Little Tommy's mistakes, and turn to the Lord.

-God Bless
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Inspriational message? This is more like "Worship God or you will be struck down and burn in Hell for eternity." Hardly an inspiration...

jesus fucking christ that is terrible. is that some sort of joke? poor damned dumb kid. cut him some slack, god. if christians think that is inspirational i'm sure as hell glad i'm a goat-worshipping satanic motha fucka. god damn. damn damn damn. hitler would cry after reading that.

actually i found it rather silly, pointless and agree with the other comments about it.

it's been interesting becoming christian, but at the same time i'm realizing that there are a lot of christians out there, that are going to be "roasting in their hell"

...if there was indeed a hell for human souls.

the most fascinating part for me, was actually reading the bible, realizing there's a lot of it that's presented incorrectly, hatefully or based on very human desires, using parables and stories that were meant to guide and suggest as means for control, presented as laws set in stone(there's only ten of them)going to church on sundays is not one of those, nor is worshipping idols, any in depth explaination of hell and the tortures found there or changing people from the way they were when Gd chose them.

how many of those submitting that cruel propaganda; eat pork for breakfast, get tattoos and pray, kneeling before statues of Christ and His mother, listening blindly to men who tell them how to worship Gd, rather than loving him for themselves?

it's hard that there's so many people out there who've ruined the title of christian for those who aren't hateful, passing judgements that should be Gd's alone, i hear it everyday, from my own hypocritical mother even.

i suppose a barrel of rotten olives has spoiled the entire grove.

What? that FACIST BITCH she wouldnt let him roll a joint and instead wanted him to go to Church? Why the fuckng GALL of that evil capitolist conservative republican christian bitch! HOW FUCKING DARE she want to put off her beliefs on her own child! HOW FUCKING DARE HER! thats the job of souless liberal school administrators to do! Doesnt she fucking know that?! fucking whoreing fuck! FUCK!

forcing a person to do, listen or practice something they have no desire to never achieves anything but rebellion and disdain...

perhaps if she had tried another method, sadly too many insist upon forcing their beliefs upon others, rather than living by their example, the fact that they presented it in a manner of him going to hell for not going to church sort of sucks, and it wasn't the pot that made him go to hell...why is he smoking pot?

perhaps if she had showed more interest in her son than living up to the expectations of the belief that going to church makes a good chrisitian, it would have had a better ending.

she smacks his face and threatens him with bodily harm if he doesn't comply, rather than expressing a desire to spend time with him?

Hey a parent has the right to raise thier kid any fucking way they want. Including raising them to be a certain religion.

Leading your child by the hand and helping them set foot on the path that you want them to follow is not wrong. When they become adult, hopefully you will have guided them sufficiently so they can make their own decisions. Sound decisions. Why not expose them to religion? How are they to make an intelligent choice if they don't know what it's about? I was forced to go to church when I was a kid. When I became older, my mother left it up to me. Knowing that it was the most god-awful, boring, and hypocritical bullshit out there, I chose not to go. I couldn't have made that choice if I hadn't been exposed to it in the first place.

By your logic we should allow the kid to kill kittens and birds with a hammer so as not to push our beliefs and morals on him.

ALso, the Oprah Winfrey bullshit of the day of wanting to spend time and positive reinforcement and letting kids lead the wya is horseshit and the reaso why the youth in this country is so fucked up. Children are morons by default and need guidance, rules and punishment when they fucked up and rewards when they achieve what goals you set for them. People who do not strike thier kids should have them taken away since youre neglecting them.

I see nothing wrong with a swift swat on the ass when a kid is out of line. I was spanked as a child. Not slapped or beaten, but spanked. It wasn't that it hurt all that bad; it was the humiliation aspect. Be a parent first and a buddy second. Kids are dumb. They need strong guidance.

Its a flawed story based on a flawed premise. We can not know Tommy as can not understand his motives for being the way he was, even he was aware of those reasons himself. The story suggests he was in pain existed in pain because of his father, that pain which no one cared to address, so it festers.


It is a parents job to teach their children how to live, instill the morals and all that. Forcing a child to do something they do not like always has a lesson. Without a parent to first direct them children will never know self disapline or how to create a positive habit, control, knowing what they want and all sorts of other wonders that people take for granted.
All this is very well and good but the suffering caused by his father until it was taken care of would destroy him so no matter what she did his mother would lose.

everyday living, i agree it's necessary to give children guidance, even those who are incapable off understanding why they need to behave a certain way, and occasionaly coroporal punishment is necessary, but with reason...otherwise all children learn is that a parent can hurt them...and never understand why they've been beaten, i was spanked as a child to...i just learned how to be more careful about getting caught.

smacking a child because they don't want to go to church?

She was angry because of that, not because he was doing the drugs, unaware he was sneaking out, and lord knows what else he was doing...she was probably oblvious to that fact, which suggests there's more going on with that kid than just not going to church. She'd have been one of those mom's on maury povich crying their children don't respect them...no matter how much they try to make them behave...children respect those who show them some respect.

my mom tried that technique to force me into going to church, and i went,, until i was old enough to not to and then ...i ended up on the verge of worshipping satan, giving my soul away to the highest bidder, attempting to master various magical arts, hating anything that suggested religion, but unable to find anything that would satisfy me for long.

exposing your children to various religions can be a good thing, and if she was a devout christian, it would be an example she'd be living by, i ask mia every sunday if she wants to go to church with me, she says no...i let it go, but still ask her, sometimes she does come with me, i answer her questions about Gd, the devil and even witchcraft...not condemning any of it, but letting her know i choose to beleive in Gd, she get's her exposure.

Once i was given a choice, the various options offered, i made a choice, children should be allowed some choices, or how will they ever learn to make their own if they are programmed like little robots to obey without question?

now because the mother responded to the wrong things, rather than working on the important things, her son's dead and she still has no one to go to church with, and the poor child is burning in hell...all because the mother chose violence over understanding trying to force her child into church rather than realizing he had a lot more serious issues going on in his life.

they did portray that aspect of inproperly correcting a child for the wrong thing...the child did sneak out and something bad did happen.

spank a child for the right reasons, not because they're flexing out their own reasoning, besides, it's hard for a mother to wrestle down a 50 pound child, a kid sneaking out suggests he was an older child, over 50 pounds...at some point there'd have been nothing she could do to correct him, and he'd end up hating her, like my brother openly tells my mother he hates her, and yes...he's strong enough and has hit her back. that's a whole different can of worms opening, because she was a divorced mother that incorrectly punished her children and tried to forcer her views an opinions on them, unable to respect or any care to understand their side of the situation.

parents are one of the most important things in a child's life, sadly too many fail to realize how much they really affect their children, underestimating their intelligence...even mia with her autism understands things that most would not expect her to, fortunately there are those who do realize that.

I do not approve of hitting as punishment especially done in anger, because fear of punishment works only as long as they believe they will get caught, if the believe they can get away with it well then...
Self disapline is always better and it means they have real character.
Although I have nothing against Christianity, but I will never be one again. You can't be as close to a god as I was and not know you don't belong.

i second that one as well. since i was basically thinking the samething myself. though you don't have to send out a message in that kind of way and form in order to get people to worship god. having to do it that way will turn people off and have them choose to go wherever it is they are wanting to go and not going to the path of god himself. i'd say let the individual decide that for themself. whatever it is that they decide let them have it. it's their life and not YOURS..
though i understand jordyn's point of views and agree to some of the things of which she is saying about tommy.

a) Hitting a kid is flat-out retarded. The biggest flaw with it as a method is that, while the more sane defenders of the tradition say that it should only be done rationally, not out of anger, and for the child's own good, primarily it's an excuse for parents to take out their anger on their own kids and be able to defend it as their right. It's extremely damaging. And if you can approach it rationally and calmly and don't have to hold down a screaming kid, you're already pretty much at the point where you can use another means of discipline. Hitting a child works in the short term for the same reason torture does; pain is a very effective means of getting people to do what you tell them to do. It doesn't impart morality or decision making, however, and the damaging effects it has on a child's ability to interact socially are well documented. There's absolutely no evidence that's even been observed that kids who aren't struck as children are more likely to commit crimes or be delinquent or drop out of school, and plenty that show the opposite. If you're a halfway decent parent, the type that would only use "appropriate" physical discipline anyway, you should be more than capable of avoiding it all together.

b) Hell is a corruption of the Christian dogma based on loosely worded passages and the influx of Greek mythology into the freshly born Church. You'll find no mention of it even existing in all of Judaism and the Gospels. Suspicious, that.

c) This story was idiotic, and God has never expressed any particular dislike of smoking marijuana.

d) Jordyn is 100% right. That mother was acting in a stereotypically asinine Christian manner, beating and yelling at her kid instead of trying to educate him to the message she wanted to impart. This story is so blatantly idiotic that I'm almost tempted to assign it to the chambers of Christian parody, and that anyone is actually defending it is kind of pathetic. Billy, I know you love your internet tough guy routine and you love feeling like some lone voice of reason fighting teh gay liberal zombies who want to eat the souls of America and shit in your apple pie, but perhaps you should conserve your battles to cases that have the least fucking bit of merit behind them.

Glad I'm not Catholic. I duuna want to look under a truck.