ill tell you what guys, go live it. go and move to some place where your scared to leave your own home, and when you do it's been intruded and turned into some other place, please go and get an experiance where you fear for your life with everycorner you turn, where NO ONE is there to protect you, no one likes you and everyone wants you dead for no other reason than they can.

get a real experiance, and then come back and tell us how you feel

hey froggy, sicne DM did it i assumed i could too, or am i being victimised ?

You're just being a hypocrite, thats all.

To each thier own.... everyone in thier own way has hard times in thier lives.... regardless of where you live.... attempting to make comparisons is an act of futility in its own right.... one mans idea of hardship may be another mans ideal of the perfect life.... yet if you take it upon yourself to suggest that your own life may have been harder than anothers you must expect retorts and rebuffal of the idea..... it does come with the territory.....
in essence the only conclusion can be that we all suffer in our own ways..... instead of having pity or attempting to mirror thier hardships with tales of your own try to feel some compassion and understanding....

I don't live in the US, I get to watch unbiased news.

The thing about Iraq, whatever the reasons given about this "war" (invasion) it doesn't negate the fact that this war did nothing to deter terrorists, even if that was a supposed secondary (albeit hopeful) reason. There is constant chaos currently happening. The situation in Haiti is desperately calling for world intervention, suicide bombings in the Netherland, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Palestine and Isreal etc. All of these seem to require the world's attention, moreso Bush's seeing as he's such an altruistic world leader.

You didn't answer my question.

When was the last time you were in the States watching news?

I keep hearing from people who arent in the US that our news is biased... These people apparently don't realize the wide variety of sources from which news is available here. I've heard the conspiracy shit, I've heard the other side of the coin as well. I form my own thoughts from everything. I get the majority of my news from the internet, which is international. That argument is tired and untrue.

Fair enough, there was an actual headline story that covered all our major newspapers, an image that was rather incredible, I asked various people online about said image as it was such a shocker. The reply indicated that the particular image did not feature on any of the major news channels in the US, and I do believe the majority of people were watching news rather avidly during this period of time. One specific person did manage to see the pic on a non-US affiliated News web site. Which has subsequently led to checking up on corresponding news articles that we get to see in this country versus that which is readily (or not so) available to the American public.

It may be "tired" but it certainly isn't untrue, you cannot honestly tell me CNN isn't biased?!

You're being far too vague.

And you still haven't answered my question.

I never claimed I was ever in the States, just as you do, I search the net for news related articles. What made headlines news here, horrific imagery in Iraq, was never on any of the major US related news sites. Besides I didn't think that was a serious question. Also, I never claimed to have had first hand accounts of how thrilling it is in Iraq now, you and DM both claimed to have had first hand accounts.

This needs reiterating.

You don't understand, nobody is claiming that GW is such an altruistic world leader. DM and I both have said that we neither fully comprehend nor agree with the reasons the war has started, but some of the outcomes have been beneficial. You apparently don't even read what we post.

No I have, but your stance has also been that it's deterring terrorists and yet there are still terrorist incidents the world over, with suicide bombings still happening in Iraq. I don't wish to condemn that country but it has such an intense history with both Britain and the US which to me contradicts any possibility that what was done (i.e. the war) had anything to do with helping that country. More like helping into the ground. Also I have based my thoughts on what I see on the news, and what I see does not foretell a recovering country, it's unfortunately in a dismal state!

when i have mentioed the american media, i was reffering to the large number of people i know, both for and against the war, in the US who tell me about whats being said there while i say whats being said here.....

Of course it is, they are in a transitional state. It takes a little time to adjust. They haven't even had their first election yet, give it a chance.

Plus, though eradicating terrorism throughout the world is a noble cause, the main purpose is to eradicate it against the United States and our Allies.

By the way, if the war is about oil, i sincerely wanna know why I'm paying A BUCK SIXTY PER FUCKING GALLON for gas. This isn't an argument, just a personal bitch.

Oh I understand, and I wish I knew all the answers as to how the minds of those in power work, but none of us do, except of course... those in power.

The Oil Peak situation is something I have read with great interest, have you read anything on it? I understand the desire to protect your own, and 9/11 was the most ghastly event captured in the most vivd of detail, there are many theories about that incident which of course I won't go into here. Needless to say that was a devastating experience for those who lost people they loved. Iraq was no immediate threat to America, if Iraq was a threat what does that say about the billions spent on arms to protect itself as a country. Terrorism has been wreaking havoc on people's lives (innocent people) for so very long. Only now America has to become involved? Its country of choice seems dubious and racist. It's my opinion, and that doesn't mean I claim it to be fact. I haven't seen any evidence at all that Iraq as a country (or even Saddam for that matter) posed as a real threat to America and its safety. Which is why one has to look for reasons beyond those they give us.

now dont go shouting at me here......but september the 11th had very little effect on the UK and made most of us look at bush dubiously. weve sufferd from terrorism for years, america has been proven to fund the IRA for centuries, but we didnt use that as an excuse, or trigger to invade france because the national front now rules it or the fact they are rather free with where they let their nukes fall.

We also get articles around here in which people with degrees try to tell us that black people were happy as slaves. I don't believe those anymore than I believe that anyone was ever happy being a serf.

You are the one that's offensively ignorant. That counts for something.

I've read everything you said. There's not a lot else to talk about.

It's amazing how you switch back and forth from saying how you're a hippy pacifist and no one should ever kill another person, to petty threats of violence over the internet.

But this bores me. It's no use trying to convert a brick.

so you find it impossible to belive that some of the people who owned slaves had a moral consense that these poor people were stolen from their freedoms, and so brought them into their houses to protect them the same way many people keep dogs on leeds because with all the traffic it isnt safe. Now listen to me, im not saying everyone had good intentions, it wouldnt have happed if it wasnt for alot of nasty violent people who belive power gave them the right to do as they wish.
You dont have to belive me about the realities of medieval life, ive been involved and tought broadsword fighting along with reinactment all my life and you still get nutcases who wont listen to a thing.

tell me exactly how i have offended you with what you call my ignorance. i havent been the one to fire the first shots in name calling, in fact im still not the first on, but as soon as youve returned your post is riddled with very rude insults, maybe you have read mine and just dont know what your typing.

you really have trouble understangin, so you throw a wobbler. first off you use hippy as a derogative term, and when i imbrace it it annoys you further, and then you canrt understand how pitty would upset a person. ill explain something -

i am a hippy pacifist and proud of it. i would rather everyone and everything be happy than have people going off on a wobbler. but i was also trained in forms of combat and teach one myself for the means of self defence and enjoyment. so while i would rather things be settled via peaceful means, im capable and willing to stand up for myself and others against people who are all too willing to use violence. i regard you were reacting viloently towards me with a vertitable amount of insults, so i shoved back

1) Your English is broken.

2) Volunteering at the Ren-fair doesn't make you educated, or informed, or an expert. It makes you a geek.

Someone who doesn't engage in violence unless they pushed to it isn't a pacifist. It's a sane, healthy person. A pacifist is someone who rejects violence even when it's inconvenient to do so.

4) Your arguments that some feudal lords and slave masters were really good hearted and trying to protect their "property" is assinine, ignorant, revisionist and offensive. It's possible that one in a hundred rapists thinks that by performing their crime they're staving off the approaching armageddon and thus saving billions of innocent lives. It doesn't mean that any un-retarded individual would condone rape. Interesting Freudian slip that you compare slaves to dogs on leashes, though.