when a man is focused on his mission... collaterals are immaterial...

besides... the guy's too far gone to accpet anything other than his own doctrine... same could be said about us in some ways, but i hope not to such a narrowminded extreme...

Hi Rogue,

There's lots to talk about. I am trying to get all caught up....I read your post before reading the ones before it. sorry

Sincerely,
Samichking

hey Sam

yeah, it is hard to keep track when there are eight different threads that we're all on with as many topics and more...

oy...

to tell u the truth, my last was a downer on u because u seem to be gettting more hostile of late and ur posts reflect stonewalling based on basic tennants...

i cant complain... before Fusion showed up again oh so briefly i admit i was running thin on arguements... but i am taking steps to refill my ammobox...

****

to keep on topic...

unconditional love inherent to the universe... seems rather akward dont u think?

since love is such a valued commodity on the human interpersonal market, why would people turn away from such a supposedly unextinguishable source such as god unless there was something holding them back...

personally, i think its human nature... and as such, by using the creation thesis, if god created man as he is (leaving out the knowlege tree issue due to the fact that wisdom doesnt necessitate distrust) then why would he create man to fear such a source as himself?

At least when I argued with my friend who is of the Jewish faith he came right out and said..."Yes my God damns you; as well as I for I am a disciple of my God. And yes my God is also a firestorm waiting to burn up the sinners such as you. There is no saving yourself either as you were not born of the promised race. This does not mean I do not like you; I do. My God however does not. He holds no love for you "Pagans"(I am putting that word in there as I do not know what he said... it was a Jewish term for the lower races of man.) and will see all of you in hell."

Now see the Jews are much more of a fire and brimstone thing... there is no saving yourself if you were not born Jewish... Yes Sam, And Everman, as far as they are concerned Good Christian or not you also are damned... and they at least have the grace to tell you this straight up and move on to other things... it took me several posts that led in circles to admit that you view me as a damned soul... all I had to do was ask my friend if he thought I was damned and he instantly replied Yes.... and it has taken me many more posts to finally get an apology for the atrocities that have been committed in the name of your God... which is all I really wanted to hear... an apology... some sort of acknowledgment that what was done was yes horrible.. and also yes done by those whjo were as Christian as you or everman... which is still pending... as both of ye have yet to concede that point I will still continue on in this vien...

They were Christians.... they were disciples of your Lord... and the atrocities they committed were considered Gods work...
This IS TRUTH... deny it as you will because in my lifetime I have had many arguments with those of your faith and most of the time they concede that yes... those people were Christians...
I have heard a plethora of excuses.... they were mislead, they were not really Christians, the devil made them do it.... fuck that..
They were doing what they thought was the right thing under the eyes of thier God... this cannot be denied... It would be like denying that the holocaust took place... though I am sure that the deaths of millions of Jews pushed your religious views"Christians" into the lead... oh well... lets see where this gets me now...

i thought there was no hell in Judaisim... hum? oh wait, i get it now... no hell for Jews... just the rest of us... ok then

Yeppers... if you are born Jewish you get a free pass into heaven..
all the rest of us... goddammit I wish i could remember that Jewish word.. it was funny as hell... goto Hell... including the Christians, muslims, catholics... ohhh especially the catholics.. hehe...

you know ive never asked what happens if u convert... maybe i should talk to rabbi shematvi this weekend (only after saturday i know)... hes got some splainin to doooo...

As far as I know... which may be outdated or just completely wrong.. you cannot convert... you can marry into a Jewish family I think... though I am pretty sure you are still damned... though your children are not..

even if ur male... that means theyve got a demon seed.... AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

Dyshade -

hey dude. okay, I'm gonna say something. and this is only my opinion. I don't think Christians NOW should have to apologize to YOU or ANYONE ELSE for what other "Christians" did in the past.

if I ever became a Christian, I would NEVER apologize to you. because I know in my heart that if those people that did all the bad shit were truly Christian, they would've have done anything bad. and, well, I WASN'T THERE. I don't owe you an apology for something I didn't do! for something real Christians didn't do! sure, they may have worshipped the same Christ I would (this is if I was Christian), but if they truly were, they would've have done whatever fucked up thing that they did.

you're looking for an apology. ::sigh:: and everman gave it to you. I think that was wrong. HE didn't do anything. and HE is not the spokesman for all Christians everywhere. you getting an apology from him means nothing. go ask God for one.

that's all. just some stuff I was thinking about.

respond!

"If you really want to make someone pissed off, go ask a volunteer if they've received their paycheck yet."

"I once knew I man who was compacted by his own trashtruck. And lived to tell the story."

"My problem is, I have no internal dialogue...SHIT, I'm doing it again!"

Never fear...

Dyshade- I am getting a little tired of hearing you whine about past atrocities like either you or I or Sam was directly involved.
People are imperfect.
The Church that you have such a big problem with had stupid people who might have believed that they were right, but if they had only read the Bible a little bit more, maybe they would have been able to stay away from the most retarded things they've done.
If they didn't love one another, the commandment given to all christians by Christ, then they WERE NOT FOLLOWING CHRIST!!

Honestly Dyshade, what else do we have to say to you? The Word of God, our only true doctrinal book...
Let me repeat that. OUR ONLY TRUE DOCTRINAL BOOK.
tells people how to recognize a disciple of God, and if he is not recognizable, then no matter what he says, he is not a Christian.

Christ isn't imperfect, but we are, and because of that the ministry suffers.

I am not personally responsible for their mistakes. Neither is my God. But now they have to be dealt with, and if the Church could at least claim historical responsibility, then we would be on the road to somewhere. That is the reason I apologized. Because I have to live with their crap mistakes, and I need to let people know where I stand on this issue.

So now that we have clarified this, and believe me, we have clarified this subject, why don't you move on to current christian affairs dyshade. You know, the ones we can do things about.
Or at least, drop this subject as we will keep going in circles.

peace!

everman.... there are things today in modern christianity which closely resemble those atrocities... what do not believe me... do not believe that todays christians are oin no way capable of recreating those acts....??? WRONG... when I get home from work today I have some special FACTS... not based on faith either to help enlighten you to what exactly todays modern Christians are trying to do in our country... I will also show you how the words of your God were changed in just the ten commandments alone..
I know... but be patient... I will be bringing you the FACTS...
the TRUTH... nothing more nothing less... until then have fun...
and remember I am human too...
One morequestion.. do you follow the word of the Pope...???
This is important as I will be saying some things about him someone who likes him will not like to hear... well till later folks...
May the Universe acknowledge your existence...

Oh and your book is very vague in that notion of being able to tell who is not or is a christian... hell going by that I could easily say that either you or Sam are liars and posing as christians... false prophets the two of ye... it is all in perception... deny all you want but those people were Christians... they were...
Just as ye and Sam are...

Okay fine

You as a christian do not owe me an appology for the attrocities of the christian church. You did not carry tham out

Fine I'll accept that point with good grace and agreement.

The Christian Church As an organisation, owes the whole damn world an appology for its own past existance.

WWII veterans in England are still pressing for an appology from Japan, not from any one individual japanese person, for the atrocities committed during WWII.

I think that this is where we must distinguish the line.

One person can not be held accountable for the past acts of other members of thier group. As a group Which, for want of better explination, has an individual entity. That individual entity, which is comprised of the whole of the group Does own an apology.

Say christianity was a limited company.

It's shareholders (followers) would not be individually liable for the acts the company committed in the past.

It could still be sued or sue for past negligence (injustices/attrocities).

If the courts (will of the people?) ordered an apology, one could be made by the directors (church hierarchy & leaders) acting as the senior governing body. They would have to issue said apology, but all shareholders would be bound by that. They could not remove themselves from it. It is offered. They could feel agreived. But that is all.

So the Pope should get together with the senior leaders of all the other religions and issue a formal apology for everything that christianity has done in the past.

So no, you don't owe me an apology individually and even if you gave me an apology. I wouldn't accept it as it is your apology. You are not neccessarily liable.

However do I treat with impartiality and fairness any member shareholder of a companywhich has historically or actually rollocked me over?

Kiss my arse do I.

So yes, all you Christians out there have agrieved me. I want an apology from the head(s) of the churches and until I (or the whole of the world more appropriately) get it I excercise my internationally excepted right to treat you with contempt and scorn.

Neon.

"So the Pope should get together with the senior leaders of all the other religions and issue a formal apology for everything that christianity has done in the past."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

damn, that was SO funny. you're great Neon. ::laughs more::

"So no, you don't owe me an apology individually and even if you gave me an apology. I wouldn't accept it as it is your apology. You are not neccessarily liable."

that, on the other hand, makes sense. we're NOT liable. we didn't do anything.

"So yes, all you Christians out there have agrieved me. I want an apology from the head(s) of the churches and until I (or the whole of the world more appropriately) get it I excercise my internationally excepted right to treat you with contempt and scorn."

you do what you want to, Neon. they'll only love you in return.

later.

::keeps laughing::

In the council of Toulouse, the Church leaders ruled;"We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the old and new testement... We forbid them most severly to have the above books in the popular vernacular."
"The lords of the Districts shall carefully seek out heretics in dwellings, hovels and forests, and even thier underground retreats shall be entirely wiped out."
Concil Tolosanum, Pope Gregory IX, Anno. Chr. 1229.

In the 13th century the Pope of Catholocism banned the possession of the Bible by all except a Priest or other Holy Man as recognized by the Church.... People were actually killed for having it in thier houses... apologize for this... or do not... I am pointing out the fallicies of your Church and your Bible... want more....

1866- Pope Pius IX in his encyclical Qanta Cura issued the following statement...
"Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies,....
Pests of this sort must be DESTROYED by ALL MEANS."

And here Sam is your documentation of the Witch Trial Days.. you wanted proof of the amount here you go...
Printed in Bible Readings For The Home,(Washington:review and herald publications assoc. 1942)Page 221...
"The numbers of the victims of the Inquisition in Spain, is given in "The History of the Inquisition in Spain" By Lorente (Formerly secretary of the Inquisition) pages 206-208... This authority acknowledged that more than 300,000 suffered persecution in Spain alone, of whom 31,912 died in the flames. MILLIONS MORE were slain for THIER FAITH throughout EUROPE."
Do you want the changes in your lovely 10 commandments too..
I have those... I also have more documentation of the persecution of those not (Christian or Catholic) of the faith all the way to modern day.. Including documentation of modern day christians who hold Senate and other such political positions and thier agendas.... or would this shatter your beloved God to bits..
Please ask... and I shall give...
I may do it anyways...
Go look for these books I listed they are hard to find...
Gee,,,, I wonder why???

Dyshade,

That's IT? Are you serious? THIS is the earth shattering information you have been holding onto? You are kidding right?
What is exactly was this supposed to do to my faith?

I hold no allegience to the Pope or any other human leader for that matter. He was wrong, THEY were wrong to do the stupid, fear based, thought control tactics they used.

That has no bearing on my faith in the least. I am not Catholic. I hold no allegience to any Catholics or their hierchy, including the Pope. He is a man. Fallible. A sinner. What they decreed in the past is nothing to me as far as you suppose it must undermine my faith in Jesus Christ. What they did was not in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. We have been saying this all along.

Come on Dysahde. What is the point you are failing to make here with me.

Please, don't hold back with all your "damaging" evidence. I can't wait to see it. You just dissapointed me greatly dude. I am being honest. THAT IS ALL YOU GOT? Seriouly Dyshade, what did you think I would do? Crumble up into a ball and beg your forgiveness for something certain people in history did?

What I am saying by all of this is that anything you produce for whatever motive you have has no bearing on MY relationship to my risen Lord. I have faith in Jesus Christ. Not some man known as the Pope. Or a church. Or a religious organization.

I know I am seeming highly disrepective of you and I apologize for that. I was just slightly befuddled by your intentions I guess.

Anyway, feel free to unload any information you have that you seem to think is damaging. Or, well..let me ask this of you....just let me know what point you are trying to make with these articles of history and I will be glad to go through them with you. OK?

Sincerley,
Samichking

Sam I know you are a Southern Baptist...
yet this holds no bearing on my discussion...
you believe in Jesus Christ... and you have stated that you are a Christian...
Southern Baptists as far as I know also suppose that all other Christians are Hellbound because of Dogma...
this is the issue DOGMA....
Do you believe in the ten commandments and if ye do..
please list them as they are written in your bible...
for even Christ acknowledged the Ten Commandments as God gave them... they have been dist