This has been eating me latley.
I can't get over the rampent blindness and stupidity in my home country of the US. I'm sure you all know what I mean, it appears that the intelligent people who oppose the war on terrorism (how come there's no war on stupidity arrogance and lack of understanding), are the 1 percentile? What the fuck is going on?
I understand that it's easier to point fingers outside of oneself rather then look inside oneself, I guess thats just too painful for the weak of heart. But are those of us like Harold Pinter the minority?
I feel very small and helpless right now . . . Dammit! Just when I was starting to find hope again . . .

Sometimes I do indeed feel that way. Then I stop to think, "Hey, wait, isn't it rather arrogant of me to assume that just because someone disagrees with me, they're doing it due to stupidity or pure evilness? Can't people have opinions different than my own while still having good reasons for doing so? Isn't this the kind of arrogance and presumption I complain about when it's directed at me?"

Then I say 'no' to all of the above and go back to thinking that everyone's just a fuckin' sheep.

I have questioned myself on the same points, but I stand my ground because it's all such a bad idea. And I call them sheep for blindly following and not questioning themselves . . . If you take the viewpoint that the mentally ill and insane do not question themselves, then you could logically say that the US is undergoing a form of mass histeria!

When a rational person acts irrational, they're usually in a situation you don't understand.

There's a good chance that the leadership in the white house knows soemthing we don't know. This doesn't mean follow blindly, it just means try to see things from their side.

President Bush is between a rock and a hard spot. We already saw what those bastards over there are capable of. And there's a good chance they're capacle of doing much worse. he doesn't want another attack to ever happen. he isn't in an easy situation.

The Arms race with the soviets seemed very irrational, even suicidal. But it destroyed an enemy economically. We annihilated a threat without taking a single life.

You have a point there, and yes I do thinkt hat sometimes but then I might be an idiot myself....except for the fact that many people tend to forget tothink about things from all viewpoints........and so i hate the tv news. but if there is something we don't know about don't we have the right to know? i mean we ARE living here..and these are OUR citizens we're sending..so should we know what we're really fighting for it anything/

Rational should always prevail over irrational, it's a bad idea to make rash desperate actions, as this will only lead to more desperation. Wheather or not other parties comprehend the situation fully is no excuse.
I for one worry about what they do know that is kept from us. I have considered that maybe those in the Bush administration are working for the common good and that they are going to war because no other alternative exist. But it has been proven that they are unwilling to look for alternatives to war as they believe that they can gain better control of middle eastern oil and possibly as part of an ambition to control the world. Their greed and self-rightiousness has impaired their judgment in a critical matter. However I am also uncertain as too if all this can be chocked up too poor judgment alone . . .
Plato was killed for instructing his students to question everything. Man's irrational appears to have changed little since then.

I used to care. I don't anymore.

Curently the U.S. has the one of the least expensive gas prices in the world. This was not achieved from war, this was achieved through trade agreements.

The U.S. has an edge becaue of economy. Military strength is a bi-product.

If they weren't looking for alternatives to War, the heat would have been on months ago. this would've cut the time the Iraqi's had to brace themselves.

The world had been very desperate since man was man. The reason we fought Osama's boys was because we had no choice. There has been a Jihad, declared by Iraq in 96. They have been building weapons to kill U.S. people since we halted the invasion of Kuwait.

If you were in his shoes, and somebody has promised to kill the people you lead, and you have found that he had the weapons to do it, you can't sit around doing nothing. You can't afford not to make hard choices.

People always mistake me for a pacifist . . .
I am not saying that nothing should be done. However we need to carefully consider the possible consequences of our actions and chose the course of action that will result in the least harm.

Iraq has declared a Jihad? Wow. I didn't know Saddam believed in 'holy war.'

Also, something interesting, while the concept of the jihad IS in Islam, it must be called for by a 'credible religious authority' which bin Laden is not.

I grapple with all the points of view in this thread. Whether or not the U.S intelligents has information that is not available to the general public due to the fact that it would place these sources in jeopardy. Sometimes I believe a lateral view is not even considered. Why is war the only solution, because we have never tried anything else? How advanced are we if we react in the same way as we always have? Why don't we just send huge envoys in to Afganistan and Iraq with food, medicine, building materials, educators, diplomats etc and give them what the country fuckin needs so it's up to the same standard as "the west'. It would probably cost a lot less then war and it could only help bring the people of all countries together. Why do they never try different methods before it's kill time? The leaders of these countries could be given councelling..hehehehe...well maybe something a bit stronger....I'm just sick of 'whose got the biggest weapons' always being the issue. Kill 'em with kindness, we haven't tried it before.

I never thought I'd actually have to say this, but Saddam doesn't seem to follow rules. it obviosly didn't stop him.


Iraqi clerics declare jihad
vs US-led war on Afghanistan
Posted:8:59 PM (Manila Time) | <$sys_datefull>
By Agence France-Presse

BAGHDAD—Muslim clerics in Iraq issued Wednesday a fatwa (religious decree) declaring jihad, or holy war, against the US-British military "aggression" on Afghanistan.

"We call on all Muslims to engage in the jihad against the infidels in order to confront the new crusade against Afghanistan," the clerics said in the fatwa published in several Iraqi dailies.

The fatwa came after a meeting in Iraq of about 60 Sunni and Shiite Muslim clerics chaired by Sheikh Abdellatif Humayem, secretary general of a popular group affiliated with the Organiztion of the Islamic Conference (OIC).

The fatwa warned that "any Muslim who provides any kind of help to the United States in its campaign against Afghanistan is considered an apostate."

Saddam Declares 'Holy War' on Israel
CNSNews.com
Wednesday, Dec. 27, 2000
JERUSALEM – Fiery expressions of nationalism and calls for jihad ("holy war") replaced the traditional Christmas message of "peace on Earth and goodwill toward men" in the Middle East this holiday season.

Iraq continues to assert itself as the incoming Bush administration's first crisis. Dictator Saddam Hussein on Monday called on Muslims and Christians around the world to declare a jihad against Israel and what he called the "Zionist conspiracy."

He praised Christians and other Iraqis for standing up to conspiracies through which "the United States, Britain and Zionism ... have tried to bend Iraqis' will, bring them to their knees and master their independent decision.''

In his traditional Christmas message, published on the front page of every Baghdad newspaper, Saddam accused Israel of defiling Muslim and Christian holy sites and trying to destroy the Palestinians with the help of the U.S.

"Principles of Islam and the teachings of Jesus Christ make it imperative on us to take the road that satisfies God and our conscience ... that is the road of jihad," he said.

"Without jihad, we will not realize what we are hoping for in achieving peace and justice and saving humanity from the evils of the criminals, the murderers," he added.

London's Sunday Times, meanwhile, has reported that Saddam ordered his scientists two years ago to resume work on a plan to make a nuclear bomb. This occurred four months before he expelled United Nations weapons inspectors, according to a defector quoted in the Times.

Salman Yassin Zweir, a design engineer employed by the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission for 13 years, was reportedly arrested and tortured when he refused to return to the program. He managed to escape to Jordan after being admitted to a hospital as a result of beatings.

"Saddam is very proud of his nuclear team," 39-year-old Zweir was quoted as saying. "He will never give up the dream of being the first Arab leader to have a nuclear bomb."

The paper quoted a senior Western diplomat as saying that Zweir's revelation was the "first concrete evidence of what we feared might be happening."

Iraq was between one and four years away from making an atom bomb when its primary facilities were destroyed in the 1991 Gulf War, according to estimates by U.N. inspectors. Saddam's plans for development, known as Project 3000, were further hindered by the arrival of U.N. inspectors after the war.

So then, you oppose the war on Al Qaida?

If you liked 911, then you are going to love it when they use weapons of mass destruction.

Obviously, something has to be done.

Where the problem arises, however, is that no one seems to like to consider the implications of the actions we may take. There is always a bigger picture to look at, but no one will do it. Anyone who DOES try to is automatically assumed to be a pacifist who thinks that we should let all of the terrorists kill us.

Bullshit.

We do have a world here, and we're stuck living in it. It'd be very nice if there still WAS a world to live in after we're through with our rampages.

Bravo.