This is one theory on the 'miracles' performed by Jesus. I would very much like some opinions on this, but please, be civil, will you? And I'll try the same.


The large is made up of the invisible. The visible is made up of the invisible. So in order to correct the visible, to make change on a geographic scale even in your own reality, it is not about us going and cutting up these things. And it is not about us sweeping the sand out of our life. It is about changing our mind to the large structure. Then the large structure falls apart and re-relationships. It recoagulates itself to the new relationship to take a new form.

So look at how Jesus saw life. He knew that however he saw anything is exactly how he agreed for it to be. When he saw the blind man - he saw the blind man - the blind man asked for help. So he bent over and picked up some clay and he spat on it. Now what he was doing with the clay and his spit, he was creating a new biofield of particle relationship. And when he did this and put it together and put it on the blind man's eyes, in molding the clay Jesus saw perfect vision. So as he was molding the clay, the clay became the catalyst to perfect vision. Are you with me? So when he put the clay on his eyes, that biofield or morphogenic field reconstructed immediately the visual nerve supply to the back of his brain and he saw instantly.

Now we call that a miracle-worker. But how powerful is it to be like this entity who every day of his life worked up to this level of relationship with the particle field? What did he have to do? Walking down the path he would see, and he would choose immediately whether to agree with the landscape or change it. So if he was walking and stirring up saffron dust, if he found delight in that, then he was agreeing with the dust. So the dust would never change, would it? How many times do you walk down the path and stir up dust and are agitated with it? That only enforces its nature. If he walked into a group of people and he is teaching them and then he stops to feed them and he only has a basket of fishes and a loaf of bread and he has five thousand people, what would your mind say? Let's run to the market straightaway; correct? But this is a master who understood the relationship between mind and matter and all he had to do was to change his mind on what he saw. And so the fish and the bread became the seed that multiplied in his mind. And as long as he saw it, the supply was endless. Now where did the supply come from? The supply came from one fish and one loaf of bread, and all he needed to do was to make them multitudinous. So what he did is he kept creating echoes of the fish and the bread. And he was taking energy that was falling apart and recoagulating it, giving them a frame of reference to coagulate into.

If you stop and think about it, someone told the rose to be a rose. Someone told it how to smell. Someone or something described to the rose in a Mental thought deep, velvet red. Someone did that because it didn't just spring up on its own. It was created to be what it is, not only the rose but birds and water and environment. Someone focused them into eolution. Who was that? You, because it is what you expect.

Now Jesus was considered a master all the way up to the sixth level. He was only a master; he was never a Christ. And his job, as difficult as it was, was to defy reality with his mind. I am telling you today that what you think affects all life around you. Then if you stop for a moment and reflect, you will see how your life will stay static according to your imaged thoughts. You drive down the city, you expect to see the city; the city is there. You expect to see people begging; they are always there. You expect to see a car wreck on the side of the road because you need a little excitement. There is always one, isn't there? If that is true and you have the power, imagine what an initiation it was for such a being, and beings, that every day they had to defy physical reality and overlay with a mind so powerful that they could see what was not there and make it there. Powerful, eh?

You think that that is more powerful than you? No; it is you. But where is your energy? Your energy is that you accept what is mundane in your life: You accept your ill health; you accept your problems; you accept your limitations; and because you accept them, you freeze them and lock then That energy into a relationship. That is what you do every day. You are God; you are doing that. Imagine what it would be to get up every morning and to defy reality, to start changing what has been Normal to you to be supernormal every day. So the first day you get up and a few things change but not everything. Is that enough to go back and accept mundane reality? Or is it that we are having to create a mind that is so powerful that it can acquiesce the energy field of any lifeform and any situation and change it immediately. What does that take? Constant focus of what is expected rather than what is seen.


This is just a theory, something i stumbled upon. But I found it interesting.

sounds like the Book of Dreams...

or maybe the Tome of Alexandreta... i cant remember...

me confused here...is that a good thing or a bad thing..?

mmm... cant say... cause the Book of Dreams is fiction...

and the Tome of Alexandreta hasnt been seen in over 500 years, i can only find vague references to it and mangled misquotes and paraphrases that were used by the inquisitors way back in the day...

You sound like someone who has a good grasp of Mage: The Ascension (not meant to be a rude comment). It makes sence to me though. Also taking into consideration consentual reality, Jesus was surrounded by open minded men, who belived he was a miricle worker, so other paradigms did not have a negative affect upon the "miracles". That has really got my brain working. Where did you get this? I would love to read more.

Hi again Clearwitch,

I did address this topic somewhat to another person on my thread about the occult. Now, this was addressed to a person by the name of Femme Strati I think, but I hope to apply the same message to your post. Here it is:

Jesus did not ever once in His life practice magic. They are miracles. Magic is usually an illusion practiced by a trained professional or someone who uses supernatural powers to make what seems impossible possible.
In Jesus' sense, His power comes from the Father. Miracles are something can only happen by the grace and power of God for they are ALWAYS done in order to bring glory to Him in some form or fashion so those who are witnesses may believe on Him.
Of course the many miracles Jesus performed during His earthly ministry did not cause everyone to believe. Some will choose to NOT believe no matter what proof is in front of them regarding the deity of Christ.

A few examples of what Jesus did and something you will NEVER see someone who practices magic are the miracles that demonstrated His power over creation, sickness, and death. He demonstrated His authority over nature in such miracles as walking on water (Matt. 14:25), multiplying bread (Matt. 14:15-21), and calming the storm (Mark 4:35-41). He demonstrated authority over sickness with His instantaneous healings over terminal diseases. His healings did not take weeks or days but were instantaneous. He healed blindness (John 9), paralysis (Mark 2), leprosy (Luke 17), and deafness (Mark 7). Such miracles cannot be attributed to psychosomatic healing but to one who rules over creation. Jesus displayed authority over death by raising the dead as recorded in Luke 7 and Matthew 9.


Some doubt whether these miracles occurred. Several view the miracle accounts as fictitious legends developed after the death of Christ. Others argue that the miracle accounts were propagated in distant lands by the followers of Christ well after the events so that the miracle accounts could not have been verified due to distance and time.

Legends usually develop generations after the death of the figure at which time it is impossible to verify any of the accounts since all available witnesses are not available. However, the miracle accounts of Jesus were being told in the very cities in which they occurred during the lifetime of Jesus and to those who witnessed the event. Those who witnessed the miracles were followers of Christ AND His enemies. These eye witnesses were questioned carefully by those in authority. If any claims were exaggerated or distorted, it could have easily been refuted.

Something else to consider Femme is that NO OTHER religious leader in the history of mankind has performed the miracles Jesus did. No one.

Just think of all the wonderful things that have transpired as a result of the Messiah coming to earth to reveal Himself to mankind. Think of all the charity organizations, the hospitals, the shelters for the less fortunate, the hunger programs, the orphanages, the intitutes for higher learning........and many more. So many of these great things were brought about because of people who followed Christ's example to be a helper to their fellow man.

You can't name me very many of these same types of organizations that are started by the practitioners of magic, or atheists or agnostics. You just can't.

It is because of the goodness of Christ that you find these things. He was a miracle worker, not a magician.

And no, nothing you have said is going to convince me otherwise. Just as I am sure nothing I have just said is going to persuade you to see things from my point of view. But, that is why I am so thankful to God for the freedom to be able to discuss our views freely. It is wonderful to have religious freedom.

Now, that was a couple of months ago when I posted that. I believe that to be the truth. I, in no way believe that Jesus was just some "avatar" or "ascended Master" who through the millenia has worked out His karma through reincarnation to the point that He has become one of the ultimate "enlightened ones".

NO. Jesus Christ performed MIRACLES. He was not someone who mastered the invisible forces of nature to subject them to His will. What Christ did was done to bring glory to God by causing something to be done that NO ONE else could ever do. And NO ONE today can do the same miracles that He did without His miraculous power behind it.

You and I have a disagreement of who Jesus is and how He went about fulfilling His ministry. I respect your right to believe what you do, I just disagree with it, just as you disagree with my view.

But, I do believe this will be interesting.

Sincerely,
Samichking

i think your name is well-chosen.

a most excellent post.

the fish and the loaves, i must warn you, was a metaphor for the churches he was bringing into being. it checks out mathematically, but i won't let that get me off your point- it's just a warning in case another theologian crosses your path.

i don't know about christ being a master. you asked for opinions, so i assume you don't mind the theoretical and metaphysical.
i think there is a heaven in the mind, in which what we want becomes reality, instantly, even if it is horrible. there was a "twilight zone" about a thief who got everything he wanted after he died, and was miserable, because he was a petty man, and soon tired of material things, after he'd finally acquired them. i don't know if one can blame god if one has a poor imagination. jesus's promise of the kingdom of heaven on earth is a great deal of power, but if misused it could create unbearable mediocrity for the small-minded.
i do believe jesus was not a passive person. he was not meek, and he seldom accepted just what was given, to himself or to those he felt compassion for. that was not his role.
i doubt that anyone could not do everything he did.
i think the threat of extreme alienation, if not death, must account for the lack of true imitators.

i should also state that the sentiment that we are all god is perhaps more opposite, in my view, than anything, to the view that we can independently create our own reality. yes, we all participate in the same things, no matter what, but what greater hubris, and what lesser humility could there ever be than to redeem for god those that he had seen in his wisdom to afflict?

i saw a button once that said "witches heal".
if this is true, you have my sympathies.

whoa...a lot to answer to here, but that was what i hoped for, so here goes:


asilentrevolt: that theory was presented to me by my spritual mentor, im not sure where he found it. but if you go to

www.spiritweb.org

you can probably find a lot of similar information. they also hjave about a dozen chatrooms. ive learned a lot there, the most important lesson was not to believe everything you are told.

samichking: i guess we have to agree to disagree here, but i would still like to press the matter just a little further. you say 'What Christ did was done to bring glory to God by causing something to be done that NO ONE else could ever do. '. so, to be a little prejudiced and narrowminded here, are you saying the main reason jesus performed his miracles was to prove that god is mightier than man? in other words, god was showing off?

anyway: i appreciate every view on this, i never stated my version was the correct one. *S* you said: 'i think the threat of extreme alienation, if not death, must account for the lack of true imitators.' and i couldnt agree more. there is a man ive heard of, i think his name was mahatmar babi, but i am not sure about that. he is said to be the current incarnation of jesus. i dont know about that, but i have seen the ridicule his followers endures on an otherwise open-minded forum, and i cant help but wonder how much persecution the man himself is experiencing..? we really havent gotten that much further in 2000 years...

Spiritually we are virtually unchanged... there are some things that have changed though...
We can banter with Christian Zealots without fear of persecution and eventual burning at the stake, hanging, or mortal torture.....
I think that I am fairly comfortable with our happy tech advances also...

ive been thinking a little about all the wonderful things christianity has brough...like the destruction of whole cultures. of course the norse culture is closest to my heart, and i must admit i still bear somewhat of a grudge towards your fellow men. how many innocents were killed, how many irreplacable altars were destroyed, all in the name of your god?

of course, you can argue that this was a long time ago, their intentions were good, although their methods wasnt. in the long run it was for the best, right? after all they were heden, and the christians brought salvation along with their swords and pyres. but thanks to the crusades, our knowledge about my native culture, my inheritance, is almost lost.

same thing with the mayans, the aztecs, the native americans, african tribes, the list goes on and on. and its just getting longer, missionaires are still causing havoc in africa, though not as bloody as in the old days. but the result is the same, destruction of cultures.


as for the charitable organisations, i believe the reason most of them are founded by christians, is that christianity is the fastest-growing religion in the western world. many other religions also preached 'help your fellow man', but alas, they no longer exist... *grumbles*

Much appreciated. Thanks

asilintrevolt: hey, if you ever go to spiritweb chat, look for moonsong. that'd be me.

If I read the previous part of this post correctly, then that would mean your ancestry is Scandanavian, correct? The Crusades were the wars fought to retake Jerusalem and the Holy Land from "the infidels". The countries of Scandanavia were not converted by sword and fire, but by missionaries and Christian kings. Not every conversion was made through a holy war or an inquisition.

Oh boy. I think you would do well to brush up on your history and take some advice you gave in this thread and not believe everything you read, or that is told to you, at face value.

The mayans were a lost people before the Spanish even started exploring South America. They weren't killed off in a religious war.
The Native Americans were not killed off and driven off their land because of Christianity. That was done because growing numbers of European settlers and imigrants desired land, and they had the technology and organized numbers to do exactly what they wanted to a simple, stone-age people. The Spanish Christian settlers on the west coast of North America lived with the Indians, shared the land and converted them with teaching, not with "convert or we'll kill you" tactics. Most of the problems in Africa these days have to do a hell of a lot more with unstable economies, violent criminal warlords, and rampant disease and famine than with which god is worshipped. I would not agree with you that a great many of these religions were necessarily better than Christianity. The Aztecs practiced human sacrifice. I hardly call that benevolent religion.


Which particular religions are you referring to? Buddhism still exists and is quite in favor of helping others. I'm not aware of any old pantheistic religions which were very pro-community, with the exception of the Greeks and the Romans, and their "fellow man" only consisted of their fellow Greek and Roman citizens, everyone else didn't matter. Their fellow man literally meant men as well, as both societies were rather misogynistic.

I apologize for deviating off the thread topic, but such glaring misinformation demanded immediate redress. I shall now move on to the topic at hand in another post.

Shadowborn

If I understand what you're saying, the power lies in thinking about reality as how you want it, rather than how it supposedly is. Hence, it boils down to a mind-over-matter type of deal.

You weren't clear on exactly how many "levels" there are. Who defines what these "levels" are? What is the difference between them? You've defined Jesus as a "level 6" and yourself as a "level 4". So what are you able to do as a level 4? Are there levels higher than 6? If so, what are persons on those levels capable of? How do you improve yourself and advance in level?

I'll leave it at this for now, and pick up again once you've managed to answer me. I wouldn't want to inundate you with questions.

Shadowborn

shadowborn: that really was good questions...ill do some research, and see if i can dig up an easy explanation on the levels, since they are not clear enough for me to be able to explain them in an easy way. ill get back to you over the weekend, ok?

but it all has to do with ascension, reincarnation, very new age/buddhist inspired.

I see...very well, I await your explanation with great expectation.

In the meantime, would you favor me by answering at least one of my questions? I'd like to know exactly what you can do now as a level 4.

Shadowborn

I am kinda interested to...
What name does this go by Clear??