I never said anything about criminals going free, but if you asked me if he should be put to death by an inherently flawed system, I would emphatically answer "No."

You realize, they have public executions in Aghanistan, and we call them barbaric for it. We had public executions in the 19th century... did it do a single thing to slow the crime rate then?

I've seen police recordings of unbelievable violence. I've answered 911 calls and done my best to comfort the dying as the ambulance is on its way, even though its obvious it wont be in time. I'm no stranger to violence, and it doesn't do a thing to change my opinion. Death is not a solution to death... its only more of a problem.

So my tax dollars should go to pay for that shitehead to sit in prison for 5 years ( he was 15 at the time ) and learn what? How to master XBox games??? How to make a shiv? How to give and receive tats? Buttfuck his rival gang members? All while hangin with his homies....

But in todays modernized, televized society, we could do a public execution and have a much greater impact than even 40 years ago...

I am against the death penalty. I think that jail should be bare neccessities, no TV, books maybe. Give the killers time to brood over what they have done, not to have a holiday before they are released. Maybe if they cut down on luxuries, prisons wouldn't cost the taxpayer anything. Why can't prisoners work for their keep?

As for filling up prisons with weed smokers, this is retarded. It is waste of everyone's time and money. I think weed smokers should get a instant $100 dollar fine, then end. No dragging it through the courts and the police can concentrate on real crime.

Harsh; yet it happens. Due to flaws in our legal system. Ones which if you did not READ my earlier post need to be reviewed and revamped. My statement about blood and freedom is quite true. Just look at any portion of our history an dtell me it is not so.



So instead we should use millions of tax-payer dollars to keep bloodthirsty bastards who rape and kill and feel no remorse for it alive. Feed them, clothe them and educate them all at our expense??? I would rather they were to be killed and it be over with. Prisons are an expensive thing to operate. I know someone, a good friend of mine from the past, who is in Pelican Bay State Prison in California. He raped a 15 year old girl with another friend. Caught in the act and the judge sentenced him to 69 years- 40 of them without parole. They should have cut his balls off and than hanged him until dead.
The innocent are ALWAYS at risk. You are at risk every single time you leave your house in the morning.

Violence won us our freedom. If our forefathers were like you we would not have this country. Violence is the human condition. We can realize this and use controlled violence to stem criminal behaviour OR we can sit around like passive pussies and watch as gangs and criminals run rampant because we are too afraid to utilize our own violent tendencies to end thier behaviour.

I bet if someone had a gun to your head and was about to pull the trigger and kill you the cop or citizen who shot him in the head would be your hero.

Prisons still cost money for electricity, food, guards, water, and to build.

I agree our legal system leaves a bit to be desired. All too frequently people are jailed for crimes they did not commit, including murder. However, when there is a clear case of a heinous crime or series of crimes perpetrated by the likes of John Wayne Gacey, Jeffery Dalmer, or Ted Bundy, then what? It's true executing them won't have any real effect as a deterrent, it won't bring the victims back, and doing it for revenge is just state sanctioned murder. On the other hand, once they are dead, they sure can't kill again. It's the repeat offender that aught to get the ax, especially in cases involving children and/or sexual assault with the murder.

I agree with Fr0g I grew up in a really really rough area and I have seen violence and death like it was everyday stuff and kiling people through the state only makes me feel like we are wasting our time. The death Penalty DOES NOT DETER CRIME. Watch the documentary "Aileen" Its about Aileen Wournos that hitch hiking gooker/murder they picked up in Florida, the shit that pushed her into becomming what she became was fucked up. Many of these people are just people who've been fucked over since they were kids.

In Aileens case for example she had been beaten and raped almost all the time by her grandfather after her mother abandoned her family and her father went to jail and was killed. Is it no wonder she started killing males?

In either case I saw we ban the death penalty outright, and re-modify our prisons, strip them down of thier general populations, no more gen pop, only solitary confinement for everybody. Where do we get the extra space? we get rid ofthe gym yards and the tv courts and all that shit. Get rid of the TVs, the Computer access, the visits from loved ones, the windows. the music. Everything get rid of it all. Let them order a new book every month thats it, to keep them from going insane. While we are at it the only time they should leave thier cells is when they are arriving at forced labor camps. Where they will manufacture for free or for cents an hour car parts, or retread tires or whatever. This will earn them the right to keep thier life.

Except they won through violence of war, noone says that we shouldnt have a right to wage war to defend ourselves. The founders also put in that bit about not being deprived of life, and that little bit about no cruel or unusual punishments.

They also provide jobs, and money sinks our area needs.

A better idea would be to legalize it, tax the you know what out of it, and use the proceeds for treating those afflicted with substance abuse problems. In fact I think everyones favorite legal addictive drugs, alcohol and tabacco, aught to be taxed even heavier, and those proceeds used for substance abuse programs. Our so called war on drugs is at best a farce, and at worst, one of the biggest wastes of capital and manpower ever concieved. About all it has accomplished is to increase problems with organized crime, and put a whole bunch of otherwise respectable citizen in jail.

Apparently you've never actually seen a real prison. The white collar places may be like that, but I know Leavenworth Pen here where I live is NO fucking vacation.

Completely different situations. As J0hnnyReb already mentioned, thats violence in self defense. If a guy had a gun to my head, I would do what I had to do to make myself safe, if that includes killing him... so be it. Then again, if a guy had a gun to my head, I would be 100% sure that it was not a DIFFERENT guy that had a gun to my head.

An execution costs even more, with the appeals process that is necessary to ensure a constitutional and legal execution. Don't even suggest we get rid of the appeals process.

Exactly.

Personally I believe the prison systems need to be revamped with a focus on rehabilitation and reeducation rather than punishment. I'm no idealist who thinks there is good in every man, but I know ex cons that have reformed, I know its possible. Personally, I'd be willing to pay more taxes so that some of the criminals that go into the system come out as better men. As for those who prove they can't reform? Lock em up and throw away the key, revoke their priveledges, do what you have to do, but do not murder them.

Actually, an execution, in and of itself, is cheaper than keeping someone in prison for a year. It's the appeals process that costs so much. And no, I wouldn't even think of eliminating the appeals process. Obviously it works. More than one convicted criminal is determined to be innocent of a crime in the appeals process. However, the process certainly needs to be revamped. All too many of the guilty get off on stupid technicalities.



This I agree with. Interestingly enough, the prison system does offer some help in this direction. I have a friend who spent two years in the Federal System for marujuana distribution. He got an AA degree in enviromental science, and once he got out, went to work for a company that does Super Fund clean up work.

What about the Gaceys, Dalmers and Bundys?

Gacys and Dhamers should get life without parole and no appeals if we have enough evidence that they did what they did. And they should be studied extensively.

Fighting crime is not war?

We should allow someone who does not care about human life enough to respect it the ability to continue living on our dime? If that is the case might I suggest voluntary taxation with your tax dollars going into the programs you support. That would be real democracy. You could support yoru murderers and I could support programs which would be designed to keep people like "Aileen" from having to exist in a shitty life. All you are doing by providing her example is providing an excuse. The only excuse for taking human life should be by word of Law or by right of defense.
It is not cruel to end the life of a monster who will only survive to do it again.

Another excuse. We could easily create those same jobs in different government entities whose sole purpose would be to help people instead of contain them after the fact.