ya the bible was translated by people who didnt write it. like if you have ever seen subtitled anime shows where in a different episodes the same word they use is translated different so some of the words couldn't be fully expressed in modern ways of speech...or not knowing what the writers meant like me telling other people what your poem means....ya i will get parts of it wrong

This was because the Bible was written over the span of several hundred years....

Everyone here is capable of putting across their opinions, without resorting to insults. Please refrain from attacking the individual. There are few things more disgusting and depressing, than watching intelligent people lowering themselves to the level of spiteful children.

Well said, Vallisk...unless it was aimed at me too..? I'm still not sure what side of the line I'm currently on...

There is a big difference between debating beliefs, and just insulting someone. Attack the issues, not the person, and there is no problem. I think that, with a little thought, everyone can avoid personal attacks.

It is a reminder to everyone.

thanks for the reminder.. now get back on topic

Thanks Vallisk.

[But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
She wil bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.
Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet;
"Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel," which transleted means, "God with us."]

The Holy Spirit got freaky, and made Gods only begotten Son.

There is a big diffence between me and Jesus.
He was tempted everyway we are but he never sinned.
Even Jesus said in the book of Revelations "I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of hades."


I need to go back and look at the rest of your questions Clearwitch.

What do you believe in?
You said that you had experiences like me with supernateral things.
Did you ever pray and get them answered? Or was it just some stuff like being on the same wave link.

Why is God "the father" sexist and unjust and non-compassionate (sp?) ? according to the books you quote he has done some very dispicable things.

How can a mere human have more compassion for a fellow being, make more just laws and be very very tolerant compared to the god "the father" mentioned in your books?

When I asked the original questions, it is because I believe those are the answers to Christs deity, in his own words.

I just want to hear what you thought about those statements.

Also you say that I am assumeing when you are assumeing about Jesus and all of the miracles, and healings he did.
He not only made the blind to see, but healed the crippled to, and made the death man hear.
He also turned water into wine.
Jesus's healings and miracles are true, even the Muslims believe them.

Gargoyle God is not sexiest.
Men and women are different, you dont have a point guard play the same position as the center in basketball.
Yet that is what the world is trying to push.

And as far as the Fathers compassion for people.

[Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingdindness and truth; who deeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished,...] exodus 34:6-8

Your parents love you(atleast I hope they do), and they tell you not to do things. If you dont listen to them, you will get punished, but they still love you.
You ever see a mother who has a grown child on deathrow?
Even though the evidence proves his guilt, and he admitts it, she will still love him, but be helpless to help him.

God is like that but he isnt helpless to help you, he wants to in fact. He wants you to make the best of the rest of your life, even if it is for a short while.

just because people are sheep on principle, doenst make a shepard a god...

So in one place he wanted the child named Jesus, in another place he wanted it named Immanuel?

And Mary was no virgin...The hebrew word for virgin is the same as their word for young, unwed woman. Mary wasn't married, but she was hardly a virgin. It was quite common back then to 'test' out the girl before marriage, to see if she was fertile. Thus, most women back then were already married, or had a child, by the time they got married.

As for the prophecy, I've heard a lot of women, and their husbands, claimed that their child was something special, the fulfillment of ancent prophecies. It still happens, to this day, but not as frequently due to the changes in society.



Freaky..? That's a new way to put it...

We know very little of Jesus' life, actually...we know about his birth and early childhood, but then he disappeared into the desert towards the eastern cultures, and didn't return untill he was in his thirties. He might very well have been both tempted and sinning through that period of time.

Also, he seemed to have a pretty loose attitude towards the commandments, and the word of God in general. Though I don't know any quotes off-hand here, I seem to recall having heard of several instances where Jesus said the Bible was wrong, that it shouldn't be trusted the way it was. He spoke clearly against the word of God on several occations.

As for the resurrection...Ooh...this one could take a while. First off, no one dies after a measly three days on a cross. It can take up to a week, sometimes more. Second, assuming he did die, he wouldn't have gotten a Jewish burial, like he did. Every roman soldier had to bury the ones they executed, in the proper roman fashion. So his body would have been taken care of by the roman soldiers.

Third, Jesus had a large cult behind him, lots of faithful folowers. The most likely theory I've heard, was that the cultmembers snuck him off that cross at night, smuggkled him off to the cave, and fended off everyone who came bothering while they patched him up. Wearing white cloaks, they could easily pull off being angelic guardians in front of superstitious and scared townspeople.

I believe in the power within, much like you, we all have potential that most of us don't use, only I don't credit any deitiies for them. I think it's part of our nature, our soul...as for experiences...that's a lot to type out now...my fingers are going numb...lol. But check out the beginning of the Supernatural Experiences, I've put some of them in there...also read the first page of The God Helmet, you'll find some there too.

i still like my little sound byte

I'm guessing this one's for me, right..?


Made the blind see, made the cripple walk....I'm not doubting he was an excellent healer. I'll give him that much. I just doubt any divinity.I've already posted an article too many times on this board, so I'm not doing it again for the sake of others, but if you look through this board for a thread called 'A Different Angle on Miracles' and read the initial post...it's a bit lengthy, but it explains my view on Jesus, and his deeds, in ways that I am incapable of doing myself.

God has many names, but noone but him knows his one and true name.
Prince of peace, king of kings, lord of lords, so on and so on.

The Immanual name, is what he was going to do. "God with us".

If you dont believe the bible, then why do you try to argue out of it?
Everyone who wrote the new testiment books, claimed Jesus as Lord.
Also why didnt Jesus tell the jews he wasnt God when they said "who can forgive sins except God?".
He said to them, "is it easier to forgive sins or to tell him to take up his bed and walk". He said that to the criple. Then he told him to get up and rise.


Alot of things dont make since yet that are in the bible.
But there are way, way to many good things in the bible just to throw the whole book out.
I have seen so called contradictions before, and they do look like contradictions. But I find the real meaning of them sooner or later.
Maybe I wont find the reason untill I goto heaven, on some of them.


I have read thoughts before, and so has everyone else.
You ever think of something and the other person just spits it out?
I used to play my dad in chess, and we were equal.
One day I decided to fast, it was my first time.
I ran 7 miles over a mountain and didnt eat for 36 hours, I was hurting at the end of it real bad.
My body would get up on its own and look for food, before I would snap out of the spell.

After the fast I played my dad in chess(we played all day for weeks sometimes) I dominated him.
Being the competitor he was, he would sit there for an hour thinking of his next move.
He would talk to himself and say, "If I do that, he does that, If I do that, he will do that."
With every line an image was in my head of a peice to move.
He would do this with as much as 12 moves ahead.
Once he found something he liked, he moved.
And to my amazement it was the same image that was in my mind.
I already knew what to do, so I would move instantly.

The fast strengthened my mind. Your mind wonders at times, on all kinds of stuff, causing you to go this way or that.
Its your flesh that is causeing this to happen.
But if you exersice spiritualy with a fast you can control your flesh much easier.

From the quote you gave, it sounded more like Immanuel should have been the birthname of the Messiah.

It would make a poor discussion if I simply refused to accept anything out of the bible. This way (I hope) I'm forcing you to argue your beliefs with your own means. I'm taking a stance as a sceptic Christian here, for the sake of discussion, a discussion I find very interesting. I'lll leave it to the others to argue as atheists.

Priests too, forgives sins in the name of God. They don't pray, or ask God for enlightenment before they issue out a penalty. They judge the situation on their own, but in the name of God. Just as Jesus did.

At least you accept that the book has flaws. You have every right to use your own judgement, pick out the things that you feel is right. What I'm against, is those that claim the Bible is perfect, flawless, the direct word o God. It's a book written by Man, possibly inspired by God.

It sounds like you have a very strong cnnection with your father. You can ask water about her and me, we have an uncanny tendency to say the exact same things, at the same time, neither of us are fast enough writers to fake that...if she hurts somewhere, I feel it too. If I'm in a bad mood, she will be too. We have a bond, a link, that connects our souls and make us one, but still two separate persons, if you understand me.

As for fasting, I know native americans does the same thing, to cleanse their soul and ascend spiritually. I've never tried that myself, with two small kids it's hard to find time to make those exercises...I can't very well sit dow and meditate for two days straight with the kids running around me. So I'm forced to use other means, various mental excersises my mentor provides for me.

his true name would be YHWH as said in "I am YHWH, that is My Name, and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols." (Yesha/Isaiah 42:8)" so there be your answer as to the name of YHWH