Yeah....

....it just depresses the hell out of me, is all.

it's just life...

personnally I think it's really cool, we get all this limitless chances to reddem ourselves, of our OWN doing....

...feel free to send me a question to my mail.

the subject says it all
i am openminded, or i wouldn't be here
i can tolerate anything as long as there is respect
i respect you
you respect me

but none ever stayed

Amen Water!

I'm back again fer questioning.

so, in an effort to stir up interesting debate, i'll try this again, and open the invite to skeptics also...so anyone who believes, anyone who doesn't, come one come all and enjoy our forum...

I should just reuse my old posts and not think of anything new. ^_^

but i've seen some with admirably strong beliefs that did well...i have hope...

Well what in the name of Jesus do you wanna know?

But I don't believe it is works that lead to redemption....but faith.

that is waht the bible teaches and as the only historically proven religious text, I will stick with it.

Saying the Bible is historically proven is like saying Godzilla is real because Tokyo exists.

people, places and instances that are recorded in the bible are also recorded and verified by other historians and by archeology.

To deny this is to deny documented facts.

I am not denying that at all. Many events in the Bible are historical, but the danger is that will lead people to assume the metaphors are actually literal accounts as well. Talking snakes, global floods and the like are not to be taken literally.

these same metaphors you are discussing are also mentioned by other historians such as Josephus or Titneus(sp?). Joesphus stated that Jesus was using Egyption withcraft while other historians did not offer explanations.

but the deeds such as the wedding where Jesus turned water to wine or the the feedings of the masses are docmented as having occurred by multiple witnesses and by multiple historians.

Which simply reflects the superstitious and primitive nature of the times. You honestly believe a Jewish "prophet" altered the composition of water to make it wine?

Everything else that was documented by these historians has been accepted as a fact. Each instance is collaborated by numerous eyewitnesses. This sort of evidence stands up in a court of law today and has thru recored history.

If it was just "storytelling" the same result would occur with these reports as with the game telephone. The story would change, grow, or become corrupt with each telling. It hasn't. The story has remained the same and the more old documents we find that have been written closer to the time of the actual events, the more this holds true. Further proof that the story has not changed thru time.

Everything else had mundane explanations that did not rely on the individual to believe something outside our known and accepted reality. I tend to doubt that eye witness testimony from someone today, saying a man changed water into wine would be accepted as confirmation that it happened. More people claiming the same would only confirm that a man managed to fool people into thinking he performed a miracle. It is not hard, magicians do it every day.

It was a popular and widespread story...that does not make it true. What possible reason would anyone have for believing this now, in our modern age? I suspect it comes from the same source as the belief in Magic. People want to believe. As such, old stories can be accepted no matter how ludicrous they are. Do you accept the Garden of Eden as metaphor?