I've never asked an ant to worship me. I don't expect them to love, respect, or obey me. So your argument fails.

I have lied, I have cheated, i have been a thief, I have done things so reprehensible as to be in your eyes the very embodiment of evil. Note that i said I have... I no longer do these things... and I ask for no repentance.... I ask for no judgement..
Why??? you ask... because I am inherently responsible for my actions... I alone bear witness to the atrocities of my life... i alone will bear the burden of these actions and I alone absolve myself of my wretched past... I alone am the embodiment of my own divinity.... "As above, so below." The first of the seven laws of Hermetic Alchemy... We have been given control of our own destinies and it is our choice as to what we do with our lives...
There is no singular God as you preach, each thing in the universe that has life is its own God... there is no single soul but one vast living organism that we are each a part of.... We are Universal, and Immortal, we create our own heaven and hell whilst alive... and when dead we become one with that which fuels the very growth of our Universe.. for our energy that resides in these frail mortal shells disperses and becomes one with the energy which is all around us....

for any mormons out there, which i do not think would be in here, but if you know any please please urge them to veiw this site, and i urge you to do the same, only cause you will laugh, and probably find it quite interesting... www.helpingmormons.com click on the resources button on top of the page, the best is at the bottom of the page under the temple section, but feel free to veiw it all, for i know you might, utter a chuckle, or a very deep interested hmmm....

Mine Freund Arsnik,

Arsnik's errors:

"GE 1:3-5, 14-19 there was light (night and day) before there was a sun. if there were no sun, there would be no night or day".

Science has verified what the Bible states, light existed before the sun did (undeniably).

"Ex 20:13- god prohibits murder.
Ex 32:27- god orders murder."

Two different Hebrew words(and English words if you would have bothered to look it up.) The first is to murder and the second is to kill, for God the Creator and Judge of all man-kind authorizes governments (including the Israely gov. of Levites at the time) to execute capitol punishment for serious crimes which envoke the death penalty(and for good reason!).

"IS 30:26- the moon will someday be as bright as the sun. doesn't god know that the moon only reflects the sun's light?"

If you'd a bothered to read the passage, speaking of God's righteous and just wrath on the day of judgement, "His anger burns," and "His tongue is like devouring fire." In the "brightness" of His coming, the sun will be seven times brighter and the "moonlight shall be like the light of the sun." Even if not a metaphore, if the sun is brighter it stands to reason that the moon will reflect more light.

"RE 21:16- heaven is pretty small (12,000 stadia = 1,400 miles). must be full by now... "

The entire poplulation of the world (Formerly 6 billion) will fit within the city limits of jacksonville Florida, .. Twice! I've got the math if you're interested, but I suspect that you might not be honest enough to. Anyway, this city is three dimensional not flat like our cities(1,400 miles X 1,400 miles X 1,400 miles HIGH (Awesome!) if you would have bothered to look up the passage you would have known this.)

"2CH 13:17- another war? "thou shall not kill?" how about 500,000 israelites murdered in a single battle. atomic bombs haven't killed that many people."

War is the result of sin(disobediance to God), see James 4:1,2; It is not only a curse because of lust/coveteousness but it is also a judgement for sin. This is very plain throughout the Bible. History is my field, the Romans killed over 1.1 million Jews in one battle alone! Very productive those Hebrews, especially without contraception. Estimates are that they had approx.1 million people at the time they crossed Aqaaba at least 400+ years earlier than the passage in question..

"2KI 16:2, 20, 18:1-2 ahaz was thirty-six years old when he died. his 25 year old son hezekiah succeeded him. thus ahaz was a ten or eleven year old father."

Yes, and today in America, 25% of freshman in highschool have already engaged in sex with 4 or more different partners out of wedlock. Fairly commonplace even today (recently a girl locally, got pregnant at 9 years of age.) particularly in cultures with shorter life spans; and particularly if your the Kings spoiled prince Ahaz, whose going to tell you "NO!" without suffering repurcussions. This guy was WICKED. But, to marry into the royalty and the wealth is an offer many would not refuse.

"2KI 4:32-37- from the dead, a child rises.
MT 9:18-25- a dead person is given life by jesus.
JN 11:38-44- another persons rises from the dead, again by jesus.
AC 26:23- jesus was the first to rise from the dead.
uhmm, so which one is it?"

You make perfect sense, unless God is real. For if He is a real person then there were those who were raised from the dead only to die once again later, as you and i will experience someday.(maybe tomarrow you'll die on the freeway, if the car in front of you has firestone tires.(i hope not.)) And the disciples, namely Luke and Paul who wrote Acts, knew only too well that some among them, including Lazerous, were raised. But there was only one who raised himself from the dead to overcome death and sin and not only that, he was raised, he was the first to be resurrected to eternal life(the word here in Acts is "reserrected" if you'd of bothered to look the passage up.), never to die again.

If I didn't know you better, I'd get the impression you just copied these off of some list somewhere on the net, instead of searching these out yourself.

God has promised that he will judge sin whereever it is found. It doesn't matter if you're the Pope. He'll show no partiality. And you will have to give an account of every idle word you've ever uttered. I don't want you to get justice Arsnik, honestly, humble yourself before your Maker (and future Judge) confessing your sins and seeking Him in truth."Unless you repent, you shall likewise perish."-Luke 13:3

very sincerely and respectfully,

Myron

Freund Dm,
That wasn't my point, please check it out once more, ignore the ant part if you have to.

Dyshade,

I do not look down at you or see you as evil, I don't even know you for one, and two, i know I've broken all 10 of the Ten Commandments if not in letter then in spirit that's why I've surrendered to Christ. But if we sin against someone(wrong them), do we merely forgive ourselves or do we seek it from the offended party? (Hypothetically you've recklessly transgressed the speedlimit by fully 60 mph and so sinned against the Law. The Cop and the Judge want to know why they shoulden't throw you in jail. Do you forgive yourself or ask for someone elses mercy?)

Myron, no disrespect but you are very deluded.
There are many fallacies in alot of the statements you have just made... yet arguing with you is like tossing pebbles at a brick wall
Whatever logical and reasonable arguments are thrown your way are summarily dismissed. It seems as if you have what I call the Christian complex.... which allows you to dismiss all rational thought in favor of biased illogical thought.
I also know that just in the bay area alone thier are well over 20 million people... the population of San jose Ca is almost 1 million itself... and it is damn crowded... perhaps if all those people were shoulder to shoulder squished together you could fit them... now if you were to take the entire population of the world from say 10,000 years ago up to now and attempt to fit them in the space you have granted.... well it just would not work... as for a nine year old getting pregnant.... this is not feasable seeing as how a woman does not start menstrating until at the earliest 12 years old... you need them eggs to get pregnant... sorry you do not get pregnant otherwise... yet I am through with any and all arguments against you.. why... because you are allowed your religious freedom here in this country... and also because i am wasting my time with you... I do not believe in your God nor do I believe in a singular mighty being who brought about this entire universe.... nor will I ever... no matter how many biblical quotes you throw out there.... and though the Bible is filled with Hypocrisy I will not point that out to you through the use of biblical quotes as Arsinik tried to do because you will just make something up or deny the allegations... as you have done in past cases...

Although I am in agreement with your last post, I wanted to correct an error of yours. It is possible for a girl to begin menstruation before the age of 12. I read a report about a 9 year old, sick as this may sound, who became pregnant in South America (no, this wasn't a report from the National Enquirer). I also have a relative, 2nd or 3rd cousin or somesuch, who had a conversation with my mother concerning her daughter, who had her first period at age 10.

It is possible, but also exceedingly rare. However, a male being able to sire children at that age is unheard of as far as I know, as males tend to sexually mature later in life than females.

Shadowborn

You are correct but it is rare... very rare... and yeah true men do not start ummm.. hehe putting out little seamen until about age 13 or so.. give or take a year... so as far as assfuck is concerned the guy must have raped a nine year olod who was menstrating..
pretty sick I must say...

Freund Dyshade,

You have degenerated from discussing to name calling. Instead of presenting logical reasons for your assertions you have employed the use of the logical fallacy called AD Homonym. You offer no logical counter to any of my statments except to possibly call into question whether 6 billion people can be contained in within the city limits of Jacksonville Fl which has been well establish multiple times by more than a few professionals. This is not to say that they all would want to live there but it does establish the reasonable statement that a city approx. the size of the United States and 1,400 high could contain enough room for those people who have repented of there sins and therefore surrendered there lives to Jesus Christ receiving God's free gift of forgiveness and eternal life with him. "For God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Respectfully,
myron

Must not be many people repenting then.... and a city the size of the US would be far more then 1,400 square miles as the trip from New York To Ca. is at present 4,500 miles... what you are speaking of is a large cube 1,400 by 1,400 by 1,400 miles.. which although that is a very large area i do not think that it would be capable of housing all the supposed repentant Humans dating all the way back 35,000 years... if it is true then I would have to say that Heaven is bursting at the seems..
Oh and sorry about the "assfuck" comment.. I was venting from being angry at something else..
Though I disagree with your views and philosophy..... I do not in any way hold your views against you.... though I think you do need to broaden your horizons....

I accept your correction on the comparison of the "cube city" to the size of the US. I was giving a mere rough approximation "approx." to the area of the base of the cube (which you are correct is 1,400 X 1,400 miles) to give an idea for its gigantic size. As for the number of repentant humans living within, God only knows this, its futile to argue how many will not be let in, but God would be a good Judge of that now wouldn't he.

I also accept you're apology, please forgive me if i said anything to ruffle your feathers. I hope for nothing else besides friendship between us from here on out.

Now what about my question to you about who do we ask forgiveness from, merely ourselves alone. or of the offended party whom we wronged?

Most sincerely,
myron

I do not ask anyone for forgiveness... I do not lament... nor do I dwell upon those past mistakes... I learn from them and increase my life experience and hopefully walk away from it a better person.. Hold on I am doing the math to see exactly how many people would fit in this fictional heaven...

Ok I am not going to go into the specifics of how I got this number unless you really want me too... now this number I am going to give you is the MAXIMUM amount of flesh you could pack.. and I mean PACK into an area roughly 1400by 1400 by 1400 miles which is 2,744,000,000 square miles.. there would be noroom to move much less breath... you could not even squirm an inch... the approximate amount of people you could fit is
634,138,000,000.... now that may seem like alot but it truly is not when you take into consideration the lengthy span of time we have been upon the face of the earth... which we approximate at being 35,000 years give or take a millenia... I would attempt to do the math on how many people have died in that amount of time but we do not have any real good idea of how many people may have populated the planet back then....

Freund Dyshade,

So If you're being honest and do not ask forgiveness from anyone...hmmm..... let's see..... uh, please, if you would be so kind as to tell me the truth, how old are you dyshade?

(Possible help for your population of the city of God, The growth curve of the world's population, which takes into accound wars, disease, bloodshed, famine, sterility, impotance and the old 'i gotta head-ache' trick, gives 1 billion at yr. 1800,; 250 million people alive on this planet at the time of Christ, and so on.)

Though i have posted it many places on this forum I will do so again... I am 33 years old.... although I see not as to what age has to do with anything... beyond getting closer to my death and having a few more years then say someone who is 20 to have made my mistakes in...

Friend. Are you native German, by any chance? Anyway, on to the main portion of the statement...

Quote:

Very well, in short my point is that God has shown us much more compassion and mercy than you and me put together. You have killed creatures inferior to you, Yes, but more than that, if you've ever lied once than you've become a liar, if you've ever stolen something irrespective how small the value then you have become a thief, If you,ve ever looked at a woman with lust,

What if I look at a man with lust? And God's supposed to be perfect. I'm not in anyway superior to an ant. I'm merely larger with a bigger brain. None of this inherently makes me superior. I recognize ants as my equals. And no, I don't really stomp ants purposely; mosquitoes, on the other hand...the point is, I'm the same as an ant. God is supposed to be vastly superior to anyone I've ever met in person. Furthermore, why is stealing a sin? Jesus herself said if someone takes your cloak, give them your coat also. What if I steal something I have a need or use for? Is that a sin?

Quote:

let alone commit adultery, Jesus said that you are an adulterer at heart and no adulterer or fornicator will enter into the Kingdom of God. If you've ever held anyone in contempt than you are a murderer at heart and He says. "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer and we know that eternal life does not abide on him."

And yet in Revelations 2/3 of all people to ever lived went to Heaven. And we can assume that not everyone had time or the inclination to repent on their deathbed; in fact, that would be fundamentally unfair; if two people with the same sins on their head died, and one had time to repent and the other died instantly, why should only one go to Heaven? Or could it just possibly be that they're referring to the actions and intentions of someone rather than requiring people to go to their friendly neighborhood priest and saying "I'm sorry"? This is the reason Catholicism has so many problems...

Quote:

A fair God will right all the wrongs and give justice without any partiality, which is what he promises. And that is not what you want, because "Every idle word a man utters, he'll have to give an account for in the day of judgement. "All liars will have there part in the lake of fire." "No thief will enter into the kingdom of heaven." Adulterers and murderers will not inherit God's kingdom because after all, you know as well as i that God sees the heart. And that doesn't even count if you've blasphemed against Him or the rest of the Ten Commandments. If you are guilty of these, then Jesus said."Unless you repent you will likewise perish." and "If your eye causes you to sin then it would be better to pluck it out and enter the kingdom of God with one eye than" to continue looking with lust and " to go to Hell with both eyes, where there will be weaping and wailing and gnashing of teeth." On top of this he states that you have done these "with knowledge" because you know in your conscience that its wrong to lie, wrong to steal, wrong to cheat on your wife and wrong to hate. And do you know what God says about this, your just reward for your deeds?

So now you're assuming I've done all or any of these things, based on what knowledge? You know what they say happens when you assume...you make an ass out of u and me. (that's a pun based on the fact that you can spell "assume" with "ass", "u", and "me", btw. Just in case you are German or anything and haven't heard that one...). So let's get down to basics. Do you think that you have to die, having repented all your sins, just in order to avoid Hell? In that case several books in the Bible are wrong. Revelations for instance predicts 2/3 of all people entering Heaven. Of course at that point Hell no longer exists...so people talking about eternal Hell are off base in the first place...

OH MY DEAR, DEAR DIESHADE......LMAO
Of course you are through. Indeed you are finshed. Because you actually have a man of superior intelligence who is taking you to task on your beliefs and you are not willing nor able to continue the debate. Just like all spineless wimps such as yourself, when the heat gets to great you proclaim that your wisdom reigns surpeme and you can no longer afford to "waste" your time on such a person without such intellect.
Nice show of intestenal fortitude there big guy.
Way to slink off in the corner. Just like you are known to do when someone approaches you with reason and skill. You can't handle it.
So, as has been said about you before and now you are proving beyond a shadow of a doubt.......YOU, dear boy are a flake.
Run along now. Go hide in your corner and shudder from your lack of reason and debate skills. Dude you are getting a butt whipping from all over.

ME FINDS IT VERY FUNNY.