You're using your family's statements (which are unverifiable) to further your argument? 7 out of 50 states is not something I'd call "common" anyway.

just as an example of personal verification.

A substantial body of existing evidence suggests that "unwanted" children are far more likely to engage in criminal activity between the ages of 18 and 24. The sudden drop in crime experienced after 1993 -- approximately 20 years after abortion has been legalized -- could very well be a pretty good reason to have the option to abort the unwanted rather than let them grow up and spread the misery of their existence around.

Furthermore, a foetus physically depends on the host's (mother) organism for survival. Therefore, it has a limited right to live. End of story.

Ah, the favourite tactical move of anti-abortionists: pushing emotional buttons. Newsflash: a bunch of cells doesn't get to voice an opinion because it doesn't have enough brain to have one.

Correction: you don't think in this case. You simply parrot, obediently reciting someone else's self-serving propaganda, having never bothered to verify its accuracy. Would you care to submit some statistical data that would support your unsubstantiated claims?

Yes, because only the pro-lifers with their abstinence drivel should have the right to engage in propaganda among the young. See the double standard yet, or should I find you a flashlight?

Smartest thing you've said so far. What I don't understand is why you insist on spewing hateful "ACLU = evil" rhetoric of those delusional right-wingers who don't even understand the necessity of educating others? You know, the uptight, self-proclaimed "moral majority" who wouldn't mind turning this country into a Christian equivalent of Taliban state with Biblical "sharia" laws.

That's because it is religion-based, pal. You disagree? I challenge you to come up with a purely secular argument for abstinence. It's time to put up or shut up, 'cause, to tell you the truth, so far the overwhelming majority of your rather feeble attempts at argumentation have been less than convincing to anyone capable of separating emotional appeals and rhetorical trumpeting from logically valid argumentation.

DAMN!! get righteous now and then do we?

Wtrong that has been proven incorrect time and time again. The sudden drop of crime had more to do with the enforcing of the laws and putting people away for life, instead of giving slaps on the wrist.

our country was founded on abstinence, is there a decrease in teen pregnancies?

and children are starting to look into sex, experts now advise parents have their children understand sexual reproduction by age eight...my daughter is eleven and i'm already answering questions about what makes boys cute and kissing, they have kissing clubs in fifth grade and by sixth grade they have serious boyfriends, at what age should we make sure they understand that sex makes babies?

if they're doing it anyway, why not make it as unappealing and untaboo as possible?

Talking With kids: Sex


Questions and Answers About Sex

here's a few links, watch maury povich sometimes and see just how many pre teen children want babies, talk to fifth graders about boys, ask your twelve year old neice if she has any boyfriends, heck my best friends daughter is just seven and talking about all the boys she likes in her class....

personally as soon as my daughters out and about with a co ed social life, i'm putting her on birth control, i'd rather have her engaging in sex that i'm aware of and able to advise, guide and explain the serious issues that can arise, fullly understanding the benefits of safe sex, than her sneaking into a boys room telling me she's staying with a girl friend(they do cover for each other)and ends up with a baby nine months later...do you have any daughters?

i'd rather have children popping birth control pills than aborting or dumping their unexpected babies in garbage cans, it's sort of sad you give more care for unborn fetuses than the children already suffering in the world, encouraging they stay in the dark much more, which has put us where we are now.

"Pregnancy, birth, and abortion rates among teenagers in the United States have declined over the past decade but still remain an endemic public health issue.

Reasons for the decline include increased motivation of youth to achieve higher levels of education, the availability of comprehensive sexuality education in schools, leading to young people's knowledge about contraception, more effective contraceptive use, and improved ability to negotiate contraceptive practice; and greater social support for services related to both pregnancy and disease prevention among adolescents.1 "

FS: Teen Pregnancy, Birth and Abortion

people like you are the reason for teen pregnancies, it doesn't work keeping kids in a closet.

I'm all for sex ed in schools.. I think they should explain everything. Including STD's, The problems that can arise with pregnancy, AIDS, the whole shebang!! Teach them about birth control, how condoms don't always protect you from many STD's, How 'pulling out early' can still cause a pregnancy. Heh, the pain that can be involved in breaking the hymen. Show the girls pics of women with tons of stretch marks!! that should make em wanna keep their legs together!LOL
But seriously, either totally inform them, or deal with the consequences..

Daemoniis instead of attempting to belittle and insult me, why don't you do something constructive and provide facts that support your hatefilled position? Currently, you are only playing Troll and that isn't beneficial to this discussion.


Jordyn, you're ovelapping parenting issues with pregnancy issues. Although proper parenting is a major portion of the problem so it counts as a valid point.

Let's start here: FS: Teen Pregnancy, Birth and Abortion That set of statics only supports what was said earlier. That the problem has gotten worse, but doesn't include updated statistics with the most recent information coming from 2000 but most are from 1997. It does confirm what I said previously tho about one minority. And that comes back to my arguement on society and it's acceptance/indulgence/insistance on the lack of a proper family environment.

The other 2 links do provide valid information, however. They also state that certain portions should be taught in the homes. For example, nudity and the touching of private parts. But that is part of the problem. Parents are abdicating their roles in this to schools or the schools are taking that right/responsibility from the parents. And the courts are allowing it.

Morals should come from the family and not from the government. You can't legistate morality. It's been tried and failed repeatedly.

How often do you hear about the consequences being taught? Think about it. When was the last time you heard of a sex-ed class explaining what a teenage mother has to go thru if she were to get pregnant? Or if a teenage boy gets a girl pregnant and has to fork over half or more of his small paycheck for child support.

In this state, they can take up to 80% of the father's paycheck for child support and can even jail him at hard labor to pay for it.

How long has it been since you were in sex ed? Probably a lot longer than when I was.

I can't speak for every school district's program, but I had health/sex ed in the bible belt of one of the lowest states on the educational scale, and we covered pregnancy and diseases. If a bumfuck state like South Carolina does it, then certainly the more "enlightened" states should.

And like was said before, more should be done to stem the prevalence of teen pregnancy through education and not moral/religion based rhetoric and the outright ban of abortions.

One more point is that no one of the anti-abortion ilk has offered up a logical response to the point that was raised about the consequences of making abortion illegal: the back-alley botched jobs and the like.

So, Wicked in answer to your point about consequences of making abortion illegal.


IRLC -- Statistics

"If only 39 women died from abortions the year before they were legalized, then either there were not many illegal abortions or illegal abortions were all extremely safe. Since we can assume that all illegal abortions were not extremely safe, it seems obvious that THERE WERE NOT MANY ILLEGAL ABORTIONS. Compared to the 1,000,000 claimed by pro-abortion organizations, Dr. T. Hilgers from Creighton University estimated a figure closer to 100,000 prior to legalization. "

United States Abortion Statistics

"64% of women who experienced one or more abortions “felt pressured by others” to have the abortion. Medical Science Monitor, Oct. 2004"

Planned Parenthood is being sued currently for that.

Pro-Abortion Memo Reveals Focus on Illegal Abortion Death Myths
"New York, NY (LifeNews.com) -- When abortion advocates in the United States sought to engender emotional support for overturning laws against abortion, they began citing bogus statistics claiming thousands of women were dying annually as a result of illegal abortions. While it has been proven those numbers were fabricated, that hasn't stopped pro-abortion groups from falsifying illegal abortion death statistics worldwide. "


It would appear that there isn't as big an outcry about those causualties because there haven't been nearly as many as pro-abortion advocates claim. Although, the number of murdered children is well documented.

You gave me a link to a Right to Life website. I automatically discount that.

Do you not have an opinion of your own or are you just going to parrot this right to life crap?

Whether or not women died is only a small portion of the issue. How many had internal scarring? How many were unable to have children later in life? How many contracted infections or blood-borne diseases? How many were psychologically damaged? Contrary to your anti-abortion propaganda, most abortion clinics counsel you extensively prior to the procedure and will not perform it if they feel you're not mentally sound to withstand it.

Anti-abortionists make me sick. They're the same people that are for the death penalty, pro-war, pro-torture.

You discount the data only because you disagree with their point of view so that isn't a valid arguement against what data that shows.

And what would you call all my other entries? I used to work with a Dr that performed abortions and called them D&C's. I would also assist in the counseling that came as part of the followup. I've got the personal experience to form my opinion and base it on exposure to dozens of instances.

You're arguement only points to what I have been saying. I've seen firsthand how little counsiling is done prior(if ANY) and as followup. I've seen the children that were killed because the mother made the choice to have sex and knew that she didn't have to face the consequences of her actions.

As for trying to insult pro-life supporters by lumping all in with death penalty, pro war and pro-torture groups, you are attempting to build a straw-man arguement that is irrelevant to this discussion.

So a huge population of poverty stricken, welfare babies is better??

Just wondering

Oh, the counseling is an option that is offered, it is no ones fault if it is not sought. Abortions are safe and should remain legal.
The right to make such a life changing decision should remain in the hands of those involved and not in the hands of the government.

i should have been aborted.