as many people know, darkforum poets have been the butt of many member's jokes throughout the site, there has been many a heated discussion questioning the validity of the quality of words here. i thought i'd start a discussion on why those views persist.


my opinion is that there are a good number of writers here, as well as a ridiculous number of bad. i'd say the majority of writers here are people that, in a journal/diary type form, express day to day feelings. the problem with that is that they are usually written quite literally, and most often resemble countless other's words, the teen angst angle is usually the most popular. and there's nothing really wrong with that, poetry is supposed to be a means of expression. but people often get very pretentious when it comes to any form of art, and that's most probably the problem; whether you choose to look at poetry as an art form, or as a way of simple expression. i could go on and on, but i'll leave that as something to start with.

your thoughts?

hehe... class.

I agree. It seems a great number of writers around here draw their inspiration from that inner turmoil that makes a teenager a teenager. If we want that reputation to change then collectively we must push ourselves to write beyond high school woes. I think the high turnover rate around here is a result. There are many good poets who get overlooked because too many people stick to their friends.

I'd like it to change, but that's tough to accomplish. I'd like to at least make sure there are alternatives for those who do wish to grow, and tell it how I see it. Straight criticism would help change some a bit, but instead of offering ways to help most of us seem to either ego-stroke or ignore the bad poetry all together. How will they ever know it's bad?

it's not so much an issue with the subject matter, a sad poem is always somehow infinitely more easier to write than a happy one. it's more the immediacy of the words, when a poem is written so straight forward, you kind of think the writer just hasn't put any effort into it. i think it's the repetitive blandness that irks a lot of folks.

anyways, i totally agree about the straight criticism. hopefully there'll be a lot more of that under this new regime.

I think a lot of people that write poetry on here dont actually sit and read poetry!

I love to write poetry, and I also love to read it..... If I look at one of my poems and think "Jesus, that looks like it was written by a 16 year old that is having parental problems" I burn it....I try my hardest to write from my beliefs, my fears, my dreams and the things that add passion to my life and I try to steer clear of things that are currently pissing me off or making me down.

I like a lot of poems I read on Darkforum, there are some people here with genuine talents, and I hope i'm one of them..... it is good that people get a chance to express themselves in a community where they will get critique and comments made about their stuff...It really helps mould a persons way of writing!

I like the full on, no shit critisism I get on this forum, usually from FuckDoll (keep it up!!!!)...and I'll keep on writing, hoping that someone really digs my work!

Thanks guys!!

Later!

Actual criticism would be great!

Noone who ever went on my thread ever criticised at all, hell I was glad of any & all compliments but even then I'd like to be told what was good about it.

Looking in hindsight at my poetry alot of it was bland, repetitive & generally bemoaning a particular part of my life.

Which is largely why I gave up on it, I doubt I'll ever be a particularly prodigious talent but I'd like to be able to look at the fruits of my labours & not cringe and I think that a greater dose of constructive criticism could help me do that.

If the Mods on here are planning on doing that I think it would be a big step forward as I seriously doubt I'm the only person who needs less platitudes & more advice!

Is it really the mods jobs or everyone's job?

Well I think it is the Mod's job to lead by example. Beyond that I think it's everyone's job. If more people constructively criticize each other's work less people will be afraid to do so. I'm sure most of it stem's from people not wanting to hurt other's feelings, and not wanting to somehow hurt their friends. However if some people are willing to do it, I think it's something that might catch on.

Yeah...although it is difficult to critisize someones work, because that work is something the person has put their heart and feelings into, it is easier if you think that hiding remarks about how the poem could be made better is more negative than constructive critisism anyway!

I find it hard sometimes to critisise someones work, such as FuckDolls, because there is so little you can pick about it, but if you look for long enough it is possible to find something, whether a mere punctuation mistake, to let the person know about........a lot of poetry on this forum is absolutely amazing, better than a great deal of what I read from books each day, so keep up the work, and the critisisms, its all good!!!

Thanks

Byesy Bye!

yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes come across a poem where I can't see anything that will make it better. In that case, I just say so. But other times maybe a word could be changes, or maybe the feel of a certain line. I know I like to hear it when someone has ideas regarding my poetry. I usually accept the criticism and make some changes. Other times I accept the criticism, but don't agree about the changes. Either way it makes me look at my writing and consider other possibilities.

Exactly, critisism is such a help to mould my way of writing, at times I can totally see what the person is saying and I will change it or adapt it, others I will feel like the way I did it adds to the poem and I will accept it and move on!

There is a lot of angst poetry on the board, a lot of it from young poets who have written maybe a dozen or so poems, these are people that need help with their poems, help in making their stuff stand out and not just fall under the "teen angst" heading! Others, like myself, need help on what type of poems to steer clear of writing or how to make certain concepts work well!!

Byesy Bye!!

hmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmm??

Did I say something strange??

Byesy Bye!

heh... I don't think you did... what you said was right on man.

I mean, sure... everybody wants someone to go by their thread, and tell them they like their poetry. But I think there are a lot of people here that would enjoy some conscructive criticism, and perhaps... if enough of that was happening, the general 'goodness' of Df poetry would improve, and in turn the reputation of Df poets would collectively improve. Afterall, a forest fire can start with but a single spark.

Right on Sister!!!

hehehe!

A forest fire can start with but a blaze of sunlight!!!

Just another example..............not quite as good as yours, but anyway!!

Byesy Bye!

my hmmm was on the belief of mod responsibilities, just trying to define my new role as a mod and do the job that the people here want mods to do.

[ELITISM=3]

Overall, I do not like the poetry here, which is kinda why I stopped posting as much; I want criticism from people that I feel know the craft of poetry, i.e. how to read it, how to write it, how to structure it, and how to critique it. Ummm... in my opinion, most of this board is basically an extension of the Online Journals boardr, only with line breaks and the occasional rhyme. People don't step outside themselves and explore; it's all "i feel this" and "I feel that." There's so much more you can do with writing, y'know? It shouldn't all be about your misery; we have plenty of bands who take care of that for us.

I personally think that most people here don't really want to take the time to actually write poetry; they just want to write their feelings down. Not to say there aren't a few good poets out there; I'm definitely down with some of em

[/ELITISM]

Very valid points indeed.... though I'm thinkin' ya didn't need to water it down.

stuff here is better than that contemporary garbage you find in bookstores

that's one hell of a bold statement, or was thought not applied when you decided to post it?

it all depends on your taste in poetry dsc. don't take offense to it.