Why? Why not have the baby and give it away? How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

i appreciate your opinion and this form of abortion i dont agree with unless it is an extreme circumstances, however i dont think abortion should be banned or only allowed in certain circumstances(sp) just because people think it is wrong, that doesnt mean it is. no one can make a decision about abortion except the person who is going through the experience. you can think it is wrong, and i can think it is right (within reason, like i said someone falls pregnant five times and has abortion each time, i think they should just get their tubes tied or refused, that to me is sick.) but like you said neither us can truely decide for anyone other than ourselves and neither of us has the right to.

This is not meant in a nasty way, but I am genuinely confused by your opinion, Spikess
You say that you think having five abortions is sick, but really, why should that offend you if you don't see anything wrong with abortion? Except maybe for the drain on resources etc, I can't think of why it would worry someone who is pro-abortion.
Either you class it as a life, allowed to exist, or not.
Either you believe that life starts with conception, or starts with birth.

To me it just a matter of time.
Time is such a fragile thing, and to judge a life's worth by how many days on the planet it has completed seems so harsh.
To kill a newborn baby, even if it was premature, would be classed as murder.
Why not a child of similar spirit and worth, who just happens to be a matter of days younger?
Some of my daughter's traits have been evident since she was a twelve week old in the womb, constant figgiting and frequent hiccups. She was human then.

I personally would not like to see it banned, as girls would just try to perform them themselves, you cannot legislate it away, but it should be reserved for very special cases, as in not impossible to get, but not easy.
There should also be more counselling. It can cause all kinds of emotional problems, especially in later life.
I have two friends, and this is a common problem, who had abortions in their younger days, but then went on to have babies later, and then finally realised the weight of what they'd done. They constantly think about the children who never were, the older brother or sister. More counselling wouldn't stop this from happening, but girls need to know the full extent of what they are doing.

i have stated on several occasions, that just because i believe in abortion doesnt means i believe it should be used as a form of birth control, to me abortion should only be used as a last resort, if you have used protection and it hasnt worked, you dont want a child, i see nothing wrong with abortion, however i do see something wrong with people who dont even attempt to stop themselves from getting pregnant because they think "oh what the hey, they'res always abortion".

i dont like the idea of people continously having abortions as much as the next person, there is a limit to what constitutees (sp) a mistake (which everyone makes) and getting on with your life, to not giving a fuck and doing the same all over again because they see abortion as birth control. those are the people who make abortion seem so wrong, not everyone is like that.

i also have a friend who had an abortion at a young age,she was stupid she got pregnant she had an abortion and she has never looked back since, and has never made the same mistake again.

No, it isnt. Nature kills children all the time. The only reason you think its strange is because the majority of people in the world dont like to admit that we're on the same level as all of the animals. True, aborting the child isnt how nature deals with it. Infact, nature kills the baby after the fact. So really, abortion (done early enough) is preventing those children from pain.

Nature kills people all the time, that I am well aware of, I handle them everday, but a tiny percentage of the children that pass through my fridge were healthy with a chance of life. Accidents are rare, and that's more to do with fate than nature.
I agree that we are animals, when you cut a human open all the cuts of meat are there, and is probably one of the reasons most of the people I know are veggies.

And to say abortion prevents a child from pain astounds me, that is playing God in a major way. I don't quite understand what you mean by that.

Your playing God just as much by letting the child live.

What!!
Letting a child that has concieved naturally is playing God?!
How?!
That's like saying the parent also has a God-like status, and that is the kind of thing that serial killers say.

I don't know where to begin with that, but I think it's pretty safe to say that if you think that taking the life of your own flesh and blood is as natural as conception then you have some very interesting ideas.
And maybe need a little more experience with your subject matter, as you really don't sound as if you have a very solid grasp on life and death.

And about adoption which was talked about earliernce you enter childhood it's very hard to take on another family's life. If anyone had tried to adopt me after I lost my parents I would have run away. I had my own ideas by then, as did those around me. It's not like Annie, believe me.

I'm playing the devil's advocate, calm down.

Although I do believe that death, even if through violent means, is as natural as conception. We as a race kill just as much as we reproduce.

I did wonder if you were having fun.....


What really scares me about all of this is although I believe life is a never ending cirlce of death and rebirth, what if I'm wrong, and it isn't?
What if we all only get one opportunity to enter this world, and although it maybe sad to die young, even as young as unborn child which is miscarried or still born, the descision was not a calculated, human one.

Natural, un-aided death is much easier to cope with. When I see a dead child it makes me sad, but if they died of cancer I can see the marks of a natural disease from which we can't run from, but when there's a little girl on the table who was hung by her step father in the cellar, it hurts bad, it could have been different.

For these children to have their lives taken before they even see the light of day, and for this to be a conscious, cold choice made by their mothers, seems just plain evil to me.

But I hope I'm right, and that they will be re-born somewhere else, enter a more hospitiable womb. Although, what if?

To me this is what the whole argument boils down to:
Some believe that it is an acceptable killing, that it's not really a life.
And some believe that all life is precious, and to take it, especially when devoid of mitigating self defense reasons, is murder.
And some believe that although it's murder, it's fair enough as having a baby can be so inconvenient.
There's never going to be any agreement....

It wasnt really about having fun. It was more about speaking a side that no one else had.

I often worry about the same things. What if this is our only shot? What if Gaia doesnt bring us back?

No, there never will be agreement. The most we can do is to agree to disagree, and hopefully come to that conclusion respectfully.

Im turning 16 in january

I don't tend to agree to disagree.

I can respect that you have a different opinion, but if you had an abortion I couldn't respect your actions.

I can respect that it's your life and so your decision, but I cannot respect your decision that a child- albeit unborn- is not considered valuable enough to be given a chance at life.

If I agreed to disagree I wouldn't have made this thread.

If everyone agreed to disagree the world would be shite, because someone has to say 'No, actually, I'm not going to stand by and let these things happen.'

Scenario:
You, to the person who murdered your child: 'I think you should be locked away forever.'
Murderer: 'Nah, it doesn't appeal.'
You: 'Oh ok, if it's not convenient for you...'

thats a really good way to put it... ...The respect thing... I really like the way you put it

Firstly, if you have principles you should live by them.
If you don't agree with abortion, then don't have one.
Yeah, it might not be the right time for you, but you can guarantee that someone wants that baby.

There's no point me trying to persuade you, because everyone does their own thing and I won't be the one living with the pregnancy, but I think it's very sad that someone who doesn't agree with abortion would contemplate having one. It's just a contradiction in terms.

I cant really predict what I would do if I did get pregnant, but pretty much, my idea is just not to...lol...but my aunt's gotten pregnant while on birth control and with a condom twice

Just a very fertile woman, they exist.

I got pregnant while on injections, although, I did wonder what was going on as I had some substantial side effects (a three month period, just horrible).

I too agree that agreeing to disagree is not appliciable here.
It's too bigger deal.
I can agree to disagree with someone who thinks garlic is nice, as I hate it.
I can't however agree to disagree that drunk driving is OK, etc.

Sometimes agreeing to disagree can lead to compromise, but there isn't one in this situation.

When I was thirteen a girl I knew in care had a baby. She considered abortion for about five minutes, then realised she couldn't. She had been dumped by her parents, and was very conscious of doing the same thing, without the child even being born. Her parents loved and cared for her until she was five, then spent a year hating her and her hyperactivity, then buggered off to Australia without her.
As soon as she became pregnant she went to live with a foster family whose purpose was to help her with the child so she could be it's mother, but still go to school, etc.
She went to college, and went into nursing with me. She got her own flat when she was eighteen, and still has a lot of contact with the foster family, who the child classes as it's grandparents. It astounds me that someone I still get a christmas card from has a fifteen year old son, but they are both happy and healthy, she is a professional and now married with more kids. The system is there in many countries if you choose to use it. Colleges have creches, help is available for young and single parents. Your life will only be over if you choose to let it happen that way.