Oh nearly forgot, but I was under the impression that tobacco product taxes more than paid for the treatment of smoking related illness.

However, fat people don't pay any fat tax to get treated, therefore they should be banned from several places.

Which would be ridiculous of course.

I know you said 'well actually' after that, but I just thought I'd add a bit about how we know, as although people may not be at risk from visiting bars, the staff members are.

In my other capacity I see inside the dead lungs, and the tar deposits, staining, etc of a smoker are evident in these people who have never actually smoked themselves. Sometimes, when the illness starts they will cough up huge lumps of tar, and put these lumps in jam jars and take to the doctors, as they have no idea what it can be.
It is also possible to measure the level to which a person smokes by testing their blood and saliva, mainly thanks to inhibited oxygen levels and the hundreds of chemicals in cigarettes.
You can conclusively prove that someone has cancer due to passive smoking, and is done every day for the purpose of winning law suits against employers.

That only takes into account the £30,000 or so it can take to treat each cancer case, when the true cost of smoking is taken into account you have to add on all the smoking related heart attacks, the myriad of other lung conditions such as elevated asthma, and the other huge one, all the special care for premature babies.
To live in a shitty nursing home can cost £400 a week, imagine what it is on intensive care.

I think if a person is morbidly obese and it leads to illness, they should be on their own. Not all self inflicted illness can be legislated against and the person made responsible, but those that take years and we all know the risks of, should be.

That's fair enough, I certainly don't take the position that passive smoking is completely harmless, but a lot less harmful than the anti-smoking crowd makes out. There is proof towards their position, however, the proof is normally that if you suck an unfiltered cigarette in an entire breath its bad for you, which isn't really a great deal of use. Because of this sort of spurious stuff we've been told that passive smoking is actually more dangerous than active in most, if not all situations. The pro-smoking position is also untenable however.

However, in the case of passive rather than actual smoking, I think the anti-smoke groups are further from the truth, unless, like we say, its someone employed in a smokey environment.

Part of me thinks that seperating smokers from non is segregation, but its a practical solution in the same building and seems to work well. Employees shouldn't be obligated to damage their health by going there. Requiring that smokers return glasses (or plastic if what I've read about America is true) and don't smoke when ordering drinks seems a lot more sensible than banning people for doing something legal. Pubs should also be able to decide if they're non-smoking in the same way as thety can decide to allow children for family pubs.

It may well have been other evidence, so I'd have to try and find something about it (and I can't be bothered right now).

If a non-smoker was there first then they would be in the non-smaokers section.... I wouldn't walk through the non-smokers section with a lit cigarette, that would be selfish. I think it its also very selfish of non-smokers to make up the minds of the majority and make us smokers stand outside. Picture yourself having to stand outside in the freezing cold everytime you bought a pint because people who don't drink think its selfish to drink in front of them. Its just the same. If you don't drink, don't go to a bar, or if you must then sit somewhere out of the way.

I was being sarcastic... I was pointing out something, your right, I know nothing about you but then, you know nothing about me and you started passing judgement on me. Saying that I am selfish for smoking. Its not as if I sit in front of non-smokers and blow smoke in their faces Ditto, I have a child in my home and take time out to go into another room for a smoke. I was trying to point out that you are missing out the big picture. Did you know that toxic fumes and polutin and cell phones also give you cancer and there are no laws on usage in front of people who are kind to the envionment, they have to breathe in that shit, they can't do shit about it. People dump waste into the seas and kill off marine life and you never hear anything about that until a huge oilspill happens but still, the majority just look at it and go "Oh" then move on. Its fucked up.

No but I watched someone deteriorate then finally die because her lungs filled up with water and they colapsed as she drowned in her own fluid.

My mother....? You didn't tell me that...