Is anyone here thinking about this?

Well, no, because even if he was right about the reasons he came up with AFTER his original one started to falter, the original justification was that Iraq had WMDs and was prepared to use them on other nations. Anything after that was an excuse and a justification. The official search for WMDs was recently ended, to no avail. That was the reason in the first place, and we're still nowhere with it.

Now, am I angry that Iraq is free and everything? No way, I think that's great. However, only time will tell if the elections the other day actually meant anything.

Not really.
Iraq has been on the verge of Civil War for a while, and with this election there's an even greater chance of it happening.
On top of that, I've already heard nasty rumors that the election voting sites were not shared openly with everyone in Iraq, which of course would demonstrate that they were picking and choosing who voted, and as such were manipulating it as they saw fit.

That was one of the reasons. Bush announced it from the beginning.

President George W. Bush Speaks at AEI's Annual Dinner Posted Friday February 28, 2003

That speech was carried live by all the broadcast networks. I watched it on NBC. The bulk of that speech is about liberating Iraq, and the benefits to us of a free Iqaq. He meant to transform the entire region from the beginning. The only question now is, who is next? I was hoping for Syria, but Iran might have to be next because of the nukes.

The turnout was around 70%. That isn't picking and choosing.

We can't get 70% turnout here in America, and nobody is threatening to kill your family. The election, so far, has been an astounding success. I didn't even think it would go this well.

wouldn't surprise me, if you can rig the elections here in America.. it's just as easy anywhere else.

I'm with thefinalw0rd on this one... he used that along with post 9/11 fear to just waltz in to Iraq. Plus, who the hell are WE to decide the fate of other nations.. America will eventually pay a hefty price for such arrogance in the future. We're stepping on way too many toes..

the question is, where is the line drawn between self protection and intervening in the business of others?

I could go into a long "end doesn't justify the means" rant, but I won't.

Yes, I'm surprised that the elections went as well as they did, but this isn't the beginning of freedom in Iraq any more than the end of the war was when Bush said it was over. I still think there is a strong possibility of civil war if our troops are pulled any sooner than five years from now. It's a good sign, now let's see if they can keep going the way they're going without us holding their hand through the next century.

I'm still thinking we'd have been better off helping the Kurds form their own autonomous nation. They're the one group that hasn't been bitching about us being there.

Elections aren't rigged in America.

We're stepping on toes that need to be stomped on. This is how you defeat terrorism. We can't defend every target in America. It's just impossible. You defeat terrorism by going where the terrorists are, and killing them. That's only half of the solution. The other half is altering their culture so they don't continue to produce terrorists.

The theory is that people who have a say in their own gov't won't turn to suicide attacks to accomplish political change. It might be wrong, but it was worth a try.

Iraq was fisrt because they were already on everyone's shit list. It was the easiest place to start.

In this case we have to do the one thing to accomplish the other thing.

Or we could just nuke the whole region, which wouldn't bother me at all, but it's a good idea to try other approaches like this first.

Don't go above ground much?

If it takes five years, then that's how long it takes. The major problem I see is that Muslims have a hard time with the idea of not killing the guy who lives down the street that isn't a Muslim. If the Iraqi people can get used to the idea of leaving other people alone, even if they offend you, then there's hope.

The reason we didn't do that is because of Turkey. Turkey is willing to go to war to prevent the formation of an independant Kurdish nation, and they are one of our NATO "allies".

"We accept too damned many things on the explanations of people who could have good reasons for lying.” Frank Herbert

First off, I don't trust anything from any news or political figure because they might have reasons to hid things, and those numbers mean nothing unless I went to Iraq myself and saw people voting of their own free will and not getting killed for having dye on a finger by the enemy. Not all are terrorists, a lot are from there and we succeeded in turning the people that should be helping each other...against one another.
I also think Iraq is a mistake because we did something for them they should have done themselves if he was such a horrible leader, they might now have to depend on us from now on.

If this experiment in Iraq works, I might re-evaluate my attitude toward Muslims.

The other thing that comes to mind is what a bunch of pussies American voters are. How many Americans would get back in line to vote after a bomb goes off? We can't get people out to vote if it's raining. I don't give a damn what anyone says anymore about "voter disenfranchisement" in the USA.

As long as this does not become another Vietnam I will be happy.... and I am with whoever said we should have made an Autonomous nation for the Kurds.... because a Shiite run Iraq is going to end up fucking with the Kurds.... which in the end will once again cause a civil war..... if we want democracy in the entire region we would need to change the way every country over there is run...... we can win a war against one or two of those countries... but several of them banded together would spell disaster.....

Yes, and an autonomous nation for the Palestinians while we are dreaming . . . Like we would ever do something with the region that would even appear to make sense.

You're right about the people here not voting if a bomb went off. People still worry about getting on a plane here. Although coming from an area where people are willing to kill themselves for a goal...it’s not too surprising.


...Also as long as the new leader doesn't end up being as bad or worse then the last guy...maybe I won't think it was all for nothing.