The main reson this is being done is for our own future security. The results will be what we want them to be.

Good thing the world can't vote on it.

That's very true.

I'd say great job anti-Syria people! I think your missing my point. I'm not talking about pro-Syrian or anti-Syrian issues, I'm talking about the big picture. I just so happen to think it's wrong to present the United States as a democracy loving/spreading nation to the world when we can just as easily be ignorant to the hundreds of thousands of dissenting voices who happen to have a different opinion to US led foreign policy at the same time. You have Scott McCullan up their like the puppet he is, talking about how we must value free speech and democracy at its core, while at the same time saying..."Umm, what pro-Syrian protest!?!" It's stupid, childish, and it doesn't take care of the problem.

Not suprising a republican follows the same passion for democratic values as Stalin did. When you drown out the voices of hundreds of thousands of people who say "No!" using a tolitarian method of control, you only increase unstability in the long run. For a good example of this, look at a little thing called the American Revolution. If you want to fight for democracy, fight with democracy.

Why shouldn't they? Bush can tell the world what to do, but the world can't tell Bush what to do?

If we invade a country, get rid of the anti-American dictator, then let them vote, and vote in another anti-American dictator, then the whole thing is pointless.

They shouldn't because only Americans should vote for the American president. Bush can tell the world what to do because of the power and wealth of America., and I don't care what communists and dictators think about it.

The only thing it would prove pointless is mindless preeminent warfare. I'm for democracy in other countries, but think about it... What if, let's say Canada started using shock and awe tactics against Washington D.C, New York, Seattle etc... And started flying the Canadian flag everywhere, all for the purpose of spreading their political ideals to us and saying we'd be better off. It wouldn't matter what the hell they were spreading, you'd fight to the death to save this country! Wouldn't you!?! So don't you think, though it would maybe take a little more time and patience, it would be a lot better with the world platform we have right now in the world, to spread the understanding of democracy and American values with a good example of generous humanitarian and peacekeeping efforts, rather than shoving it down peoples throats with bombing campaings and military interventionalism? (Sorry if there are typo's, I had to type quick)

We aren't engaged in mindless preeminent (did you mean premptive?) warfare.

Bad example, but I get the point. But there is another point in that example. The idea of Canada attacking the US is unlikely, ever, because Canada is a democracy, and democracies tend to not go to war with each other. There are a few exceptions like Greece vs. Turkey a few years ago, it's generally true.

Once again, we're thinking about the same situation on two completely different levels. You're thinking about it with objectivity, I'm thinking of it as us vs. them, and I'm part of the "us" that is the USA. Our way IS BETTER then what many countries have, and if they start giving us trouble, then altering their form of government with the use of force can be a good solution to the problem.

If America was being invaded and occupied, I'd go so far as to become a "terrorist".

....and ,NO, that is not a contradiction of any of my other opinions.


Absolutely. That's a great idea to use in situations where it might actually work. Bush has been more generous with the aid than any previous president. That approach has not worked in the middle-east. It's been tried for decades. Look at how much progress has been made with one big application of force from a president that's tired of fucking around with all the kings and dictators over there.

Do you think that it's possible for a country to wage war on other non-democratic countries without losing sight of democracy itself?
If anything, political events in my country as of late have shown me that the ideal of sanctioned freedom is a fragile one but not in the way that most think of it.

Yes. Losing sight of democracy could potentially happen for any number of reasons. I don't see it happening now.

I need context to comment on that.

I don't think that a country can maintain the essence if democracy while being at constant war.
I mean that in the context of these being tubulant times. Those in power tell us we must trade in our freedom to remain safe.

If the voters support wars, then a democracy won't lose anything by being at war.

What freedoms did you trade in? I haven't traded in any of my freedoms.

A state of permanent warfare demands that the military industrial complex by given almost complete control of a nation. In such a situation a police state could be easily delared and inforced: Supposedly for our safety.
I'm referring to The Patriot Act of course, our freedom's are in peril under it even if it isn't in full effect,

You have it backwards.

I would have to see it to believe it.

Iv'e jut been reading this thread and err errm....

the Iraq war was not fought for Democracy?

the Iraq war was not fought for Oil?

the Iraq war was not fought for America's security?

the Iraq war was not fought for WMD's?

....anyone like to try and guess the real reason for this war? think about it carefully, i.e. who, what, when, how and why.

Are you up for a jew debate with a former white nationalist? Here's some background.

http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....9&postcount=32

http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....3&postcount=15

http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....02&postcount=3

http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....7&postcount=13

http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....3&postcount=36

yes, so long as theirs no liberal facists banning free speech, and why former WN?

The only thing I enforce here are direct personal attacks. If you want to do that, take it to the Bitch Board.

I'll list the reasons I'm a FORMER WN.

1. There are too many holes in the ideology. The jew issue is like spackle that fills in the holes. Without the conspiritorial jewish nonsense, it falls apart.

2. There's only one race I genuinely dislike, and it isn't jews.

3. White nationalists have an anti freedom agenda. The concept of democracy itself is regularly attacked by them.

4. I'm sick of the hatred of America. Even liberals can't match WN America hating.

5. You have to play the scapegoat game. Jews did not cause this! Things are the way they are in America and Europe because that's the way white people want it to be. To the extent that jews are guilty of influencing things, it's only because a lot of white people agreed with them. Jews DO NOT have control of society, or the media.

6. Speaking of "the jewish media". It doesn't direct opinion, it REFLECTS opinion. Everything in the media is there because white people (who are still the majority) want to see it. Jews do not have hypnotic powers of mind control, though if you read Stormfront or VNN you might think that they do.

7. For a moment, and for the sake of discussion, I'll agree that jews really do control everything, and want to exterminate the white race. If that's true, then we don't deserve to survive. We would have to be the biggest bunch of rubes that has ever walked the earth to allow the elite of a tiny ethnic minority to gain the level of control that is alleged by WN.

8. I hate the groupthink that dominates WN forums. They take people who arrive at those boards, and force them into a cookie cutter mentality. Anyone who demonstrates a desire to think outside the WN box is ridiculed relentlessly.

9. White nationalists are like liberals, without the sanity. That's right, you normal liberals, I'm talking to you. You have more in common with Nazis and White Nationalists than you would want to believe.

10. White nationalists are the most humorless bunch of people I've ever met, way worse than goths. I think it comes from believing that everyone around them is mind-numbed puppet of the jews.

11. Have you read "The Turner Diaries"? I did, and I will NEVER consider myself a part of any group that fantasizes about the kind of things in that story.


and that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

You won't be censored here for what you believe. You might be hated for it, but not censored. Welcome to DF.

Here's another reason I'm a former WN.

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.p...6&page=1&pp=10


This is the kind of shit that begins to freak me out. Seeking money from Saudis to "fight the jew", and in the sales pitch he uses the example of Hitler being allied with arabs as a positive. If Hitler did it, it must be good.

You have to wonder how a person gets to the point where this seems like a reasonable thing to do.

This is also why white nationalism will never succeed. The average white American will read something like that and rightfully put the writer into the KOOK category.

Noone bans free speech here.... we do not censor nor do we influence thought or brainwash...... we argue.... ridicule..... make light of..... and sometimes we even have some witty conversations which elude the main points of a thread topic