Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

It became the center when we made it the center. Before it was the center there was no center. It works as the center because if we can set up a stable government that is willing to help us out and ally with us it proves that the middle east can change. Thats why its the center, because if we can win there, we cant win against Iran, and if we cant beat them then we cant beat terrorism. In which case I would suggest switching to Islam and Sharia now or else dont take the bus or any subways anymore.

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

So when do you plan on enlisting in our military and volunteering for deployment to Iraq so you can serve your country by fighting terrorism directly and see that terrorism is beaten?

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

The casualties in Iraq are hardly irrelevant. In fact they are central to the issue. If we are not safer, and this conflict does not result in the end of terrorism, then it will all be for naught. If on the other hand, the terrorists are brought to bay, then no one will can claim their sacrifice was in vain.

At this point in time, I personally don't feel any more or less safe than I did on September 10, 2001. I believe the lack of terrorist attacks has more to do with good police work, both here and abroad, than it has to do with "occupying the bad guys over there". I do believe we are creating enemies faster than we can kill them with our activities in Iraq, especially considering things like Abu Grabe and the rape and murders allegedly commited by US troops in Mahmoudiya.

We are also not making things better by enacting laws that effectively remove Constitutional protections from defendants. We are supposed to be the heart and soul of freedom and democracy. As such WE, the American People and our Government, MUST set the example for the rest of the world before we can expect them to behave in what we consider to be a civilized fashion. If we don't want others to use torture, then we don't allow it oursevesf. If we want others to honor habeas corpus, then we must do the same, for everyone. If we don't want others to arrest and hold prisoners, for any reason, without formal charges, then we cannot enact laws allowing "exceptions".

Ad Infinitum.

We are a very powerful country. We shouldn't allow school yard bullies to drag us into the muck with them, which is what we have done in Iraq. All we are proving is what we already demonstrated in Vietnam. As a military power, we can be just as blood thirsty as the next guy. Which is precisely the wrong example for us to be setting for others.

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

Argumentum ad hominem

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

When do you plan on using a real argument? When there is a draft I will go since I am registered with the selective services, until that time they dont need me. We do have a volunteer military you know.

Why is it dumbshit liberals like yourself can never make a REAL case against a war other than moral bullshit reasons? Then you find the incessant need ot attack those of us who see the logic behind taking the fight to terrorists by asking "duuuuhhhh when r U gunna sign up n fight in da war duuuuh". As though my not being an enlisted person SOMEHOW nullifies my right to support the war or make my logical reasoning for accepting that we needed a war any less valid. Get real son, youve been owned just admit and go crawl into your hole like Al Gore did after he lost.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Nice straw man son, yes the war to end terrorism.. thats whats going on... this war is 1 figment of the greater war ot end terrorism, one important figment though.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Your utter hatred for the United States though is duly noted. I alost note that you hate the military and you ghoulishly use thier deaths to further insult them. Good for you, youre a real piece of shit. Just like the rest of the Democrats.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Thier deaths have served a greater purpose and they are keeping us safer. We dont have to live the way the Israelis do for example because we brought the fight to them. Our troops understood the costs of going to war when they enlisted AFTER 9/11. I at least can accept that they died fighting to keep us safe, you disrespect them by saying they died for nothing, your kind ( liberal scum) are the bane of the American culture... My only satisfaction is that your women are aborting your young in record numbers and youre slowly fiddling down to extinction.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

You can keep copy/pasting that all you want, I will not make a big deal out of the fact that you havent made a single realistic argument so far other than "Bush sucks!" and "DUhhh you arent in da army so you cant suppport da war! duuhhhh". Which of course are probably not Ad hominem in your puny mind... theyre "facts" because like most liberal crazies youre wrapped up in your phoney little world. Get perspective son.

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

Let me see if I have this straight.

While espousing the continued death and destruction in Iraq, with the loss of 2,746 Americans as of today, you intend to stay comfortably cooped up in your cozy corner of the U.S. You have no intention of serving your Country in a cause you so heartily endorse. Not in Iraq, not in Afghanistan, no even in the safety of some cushy job here in the States?

Go figure.

FYI- On September 27, 2006, Sgt. 1st Class Merideth Howard, became the oldest known American woman to die in combat. She was 52. Cause of death- IED

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

"1 figment"? As in imagination? I wish it were a figment of my imagination.


Hate my country? Because I disagree with what it is doing? Did you hate the U.S. while it's policies were directed by Bill Clinton?

Hate the military? Not likely. I spent six years in the service of my country. You?

I'm a piece of shit... Where's a moderator when ya need one?

FYI- I'm a Republican.



I don't question that our service men and women are fighting to keep us safe. It's our leadership (or more accurately the lack there of) that concerns me. They are a pack of liars who drug this country into this quagmire under false pretenses, with no follow through plan, and can't seem to get their head far enough out of their collective asses to straighten this thing out. And now, because we are bogged down in Iraq, North Korea is getting away with thumbing their nose at us by setting off a nuke. Iran isn't far behind. If we had stayed out of Iraq, and set the full resources of the U.S. to the task in Afghanistan, we would represent a far greater military threat and have stood better chance of dissuading the Koreans and Iranians from continuing down their reckless road.

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

"liberal crazy"?

"liberal"

By definition, I would be a liberal. Keep in mind that liberalism emphasizes individual rights. That is, I believe in a society that demands freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on a central power, especially governmental and religious, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market driven economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. That includes the right to own firearms, freedom from warrantless searches and detainment, and the right of habeas corpus. Liberalism also calls for open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.

Thank you for noticing.

"crazy"

No more so than you.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Dont lie, like most liberals youre a liar. No "republican" would espouse the anti american bullshit you do. You served? Good for you, what war? no war? Then you mean the government paid for your life for 6 years.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

lol, typical liberal, cant support a war unless youre in it, cant talk about 9/11 unless you lost someone, cant talka bout drug addiction unless you were an addict. Liberal doctrine of infallibility. Its horseshit, and it doesnt make your argument any stronger, it just makes you look like a moron.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Yeah yeah and a textbook definition of a faggot is a bundle of sticks. Youre the implied meaning of a liberal, a blame america first, terrorist symapthizing shithead.

Originally Posted by Nox noctis Umbra

Let me ask you something Billy: What about Rummy and Bush saying that anyone who disagrees with them is a traitor?

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

Very good, you know how to read a dictionary. I don't blame America. It's Bush and his cronies I have a problem with. I have no sympathy for terrorist, their or ours.

now I'm a shithead

How articulate an intellectual of you.

Oddly enough, you may have a point, my wife frequently refers to me as a fish poop.