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Serious Discussion Discuss This is the way we should deal with the U.N. in the Discussions forums; CONGRESS EYES U.N. FUND CUT By NILES LATHEM November 29, 2004 -- WASHINGTON — Congress is likely to move to reduce U.S. funding of the United Nations if leaders at ...

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This is the way we should deal with the U.N. - 11-30-04

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CONGRESS EYES U.N. FUND CUT

By NILES LATHEM

November 29, 2004 -- WASHINGTON — Congress is likely to move to reduce U.S. funding of the United Nations if leaders at Turtle Bay don't come clean and institute major reforms in the wake of the Iraq oil-for-food scandal, The Post has learned.
Recent interviews with Congress members and staff investigators revealed growing shock and outrage at the scope of history's biggest financial scandal, in which Saddam Hussein is alleged to have ripped off $21.3 billion from a humanitarian program intended to provide food and medicine to the Iraqi people.

The officials said there is increasing sentiment to take drastic action, including cutting U.S funding if the United Nations doesn't make radical changes in its secretive policies and questionable management procedures.

The $1.12 billion annual U.S. contribution to the United Nations represents 22 percent of the world body's budget.

"This is life-and-death stuff. To see U.N. officials involved in a program that was used to pay off families of Palestinian suicide bombers, to discover that money from this program is now being used to fund the people killing our troops in Iraq is very troubling," Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) told The Post. "I definitely feel that people are fed up." Flake has sponsored legislation that would reduce U.S. funding to the United Nations by 10 percent, and claims the bill already has 75 co-sponsors. A companion bill has been introduced in the Senate.

So far, the chairmen of the congressional committees investigating the oil-for-food scandal have not endorsed the measure. They say they are waiting to see the results of the U.N.-appointed investigation headed by former Federal Reserve Board Chairman Paul Volcker.

But one congressional investigator said that a move to reduce or cut off U.S. funding could quickly gain momentum — and the Bush administration would be unwilling or unable to stop it — if culpable U.N. officials aren't prosecuted or fired and major reforms are not enacted.

"What we really want to see is greater transparency in U.N. programs. That's the big issue here," the investigator said.

"These oil-for-food deals were negotiated in secret. If it was known that Saddam Hussein was given sole authority to pick and chose companies he would do business with . . . [and] that he was giving oil vouchers to U.N. officials and to Russian and French politicians to buy votes on the Security Council, there would have been a move to stop it."

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YES!

Someone is finally putting that useless organization in its place.
  
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11-30-04

You mean..putting it in it's place as in how America has used the UN to shove sanctions on people and maintain said sanctions, how America has paid off members of the UN to try and buy their votes, and of course how America has time and again demonstrated an utter lack of thinking globally and only nationally?


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11-30-04

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Originally Posted by John Preston
You mean..putting it in it's place as in how America has used the UN to shove sanctions on people and maintain said sanctions, how America has paid off members of the UN to try and buy their votes, and of course how America has time and again demonstrated an utter lack of thinking globally and only nationally?
That's right, and when it gets uppity, and starts to misbehave, we need to slap it around a little.
  
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11-30-04

Because god forbid there be anything or anyone but America in control.


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12-01-04

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Originally Posted by John Preston
Because god forbid there be anything or anyone but America in control.
That's right, because I'm an American.

A Russian person should think the same of their nation, and a Chinese person of theirs, etc. etc.

It's called nationalism. Learn it, love it.
  
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12-01-04

There's loving your country, then there is being arrogant.


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12-04-04

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Originally Posted by Synikul
That's right, because I'm an American.

A Russian person should think the same of their nation, and a Chinese person of theirs, etc. etc.

It's called nationalism. Learn it, love it.
That's exactly the sort of attitude that led to 2 world wars and tens of millions of lives lost in the 20th century, not to mention the cold war. Not easy to love.


'If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning, concerning matterof fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it contains nothing but sophistry and illusion.'

'The heart of man is made to reconcile the most glaring contradictions.'

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12-04-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty
That's exactly the sort of attitude that led to 2 world wars and tens of millions of lives lost in the 20th century, not to mention the cold war. Not easy to love.
and the first victims were people like you, who want the whole human race to join hands and sing kumbaya, who lived in nations that thought if they left everyone alone, and were as inoffensive as possible, then nobody would ever attack them.

The hammer or the nail?
  
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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synikul
and the first victims were people like you, who want the whole human race to join hands and sing kumbaya, who lived in nations that thought if they left everyone alone, and were as inoffensive as possible, then nobody would ever attack them.
The Spanish were the first victims of World War II?
I think there needs to be a line drawn inbetween leaving everyone alone and thinking that you havent done anything and arent doing anything that would make people angry.


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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synikul
and the first victims were people like you, who want the whole human race to join hands and sing kumbaya, who lived in nations that thought if they left everyone alone, and were as inoffensive as possible, then nobody would ever attack them.

The hammer or the nail?

Neither.

The best thing is not to be the divisive, aggressive ones and not to instigate trouble yourself, but at the same time be aware that there are always people like you or Al Qaeda that are going to cause trouble, and to deal with it as it arises in the best way that you can.


'If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning, concerning matterof fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it contains nothing but sophistry and illusion.'

'The heart of man is made to reconcile the most glaring contradictions.'

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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMeat
The Spanish were the first victims of World War II?
I think there needs to be a line drawn inbetween leaving everyone alone and thinking that you havent done anything and arent doing anything that would make people angry.
This is completely true, its a well known fact that the first victims of World War II were in fact Australia, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, and Canada among many others.


Thanks. Find out exactly what to think, next.

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12-05-04

wow the srrogance on both sides of the fence is astounding......now back to the topic. What to do with the U.N.-or really 'what the U.N. should do with itself'
1)find out if Kofi Annan really pull the biggest charity scam in history OR was the fault all on Saddam's end and the evidence been piled against him ( Annan) because he finnaly decided to codemn the american invaision of Iraq. I think probably the former, if so appoint a new seretary general and move on. We all know that the U.N. needs some major housecleaning (although no more than any eliteist/govermental agencies) but it's not the job of the U.S. to do it. Were one nation in the U.N. if you can't grasp that as rule number 1, don't pretend you think you know the game.
2) [personal thought] Move the U.N. out of the United States and move the building to another country with a more mature attitude. I'm thinking Canada.


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12-05-04

The U.N. Does have two places, its just the main building is in the U.S.


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12-05-04

okay minor point in my argument-but thanks for the clarification. Also lets remember that the whole 'oil for food' contract was put together and approved (by thier respective secretariat members)by the U.S. and the U.K.
Also, I don't know why Synikul would choose to quote an artivle for the New York Post-a paper that has been publicly falsify articles and stories ( jayson Blair, Maureen Dowd for examples)?


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12-05-04

...............shit happens? nah, its just goes to show that no one with a lot of power is incorruptable, the type of power determines the level of corruption, and the form.


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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogenes
okay minor point in my argument-but thanks for the clarification. Also lets remember that the whole 'oil for food' contract was put together and approved (by thier respective secretariat members)by the U.S. and the U.K.
Also, I don't know why Synikul would choose to quote an artivle for the New York Post-a paper that has been publicly falsify articles and stories ( jayson Blair, Maureen Dowd for examples)?
It was approved because we don't want to see people starve who have little or nothing to do with the problem. That's why we also give food to N. Korea.

Jason Blair and Maureen Dowd worked for The New York Times, not the Post.
  
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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty
Neither.

The best thing is not to be the divisive, aggressive ones and not to instigate trouble yourself, but at the same time be aware that there are always people like you or Al Qaeda that are going to cause trouble, and to deal with it as it arises in the best way that you can.
What do you think is happening in the middle east? I'm 37, and my entire life nothing but chaos and death has come out of the middle east. We haven't ever dealt with it firmly, and we coddled kings and dictators to keep the oil flowing. Even Reagan, a president I respect more than any other in my lifetime, took the same approach. It doesn't work. It never worked, and now Bush is trying to take care of the problem. The UN is just a roadblock to any kind of decisive action. They sit around and think they're doing something just by talking and talking and talking, while the problems never get solved.

The Iraq war is not about oil, though that will be a nice side benefit. It's about changing the culture of the entire region, and it's working. That's why the UN "diplomats" are against it. Qutar, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia have started holding elections. Suadi Arabia is even starting to consider something closer to equal rights for women. Libya gave up their weapons programs and invited the inspectors in, giving them unhindered access, unlike what the UN let Saddam get away with. Suicide bombings are down in Israel. Europe started leaning on Iran about their nuke program. The anti-government groups inside Iran are getting stronger. Syria is walking on eggshells because they're scared to death that they're next. Iraq is a terrorist magnet which allows our military to kill them there.

All this is a direct result of Bush not putting up with the bullshit anymore and taking drastic steps in the middle east to change things, which the UN opposed.
  
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12-05-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synikul
It was approved because we don't want to see people starve who have little or nothing to do with the problem. That's why we also give food to N. Korea. Jason Blair and Maureen Dowd worked for The New York Times, not the Post.
Thats right but thats the basis of this whole scandal. was the program that was meant for food for starving Iraqis funneled into supposed terrorist activities. And if so who knew about it? people are quick to point fingers at the secretary general without realizing that most of work of funneling the money would have to be done by the secritariat including but of course not limited too the U.S. and U.K..

and yes I sheepishly conceed that I got the 'post' and the 'times' mixed up


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12-05-04

I think Synikul has forgotten about Persian Rugs.


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