I think the genocide and mass murder are what made him a very bad leader. It kind of trumps everything else.

I think the point is more that if he's a pussy speaker, he's probably a pussy period.

Only emotionally.

Wha?

You realize how fucking stupid your statement is, right?

"Except for the fact that he raped me, he was a really good boyfriend"

"My dog is very well behaved, if not for the fact that every night he takes a shit on my pillow"

"My car runs great! Except for the fact that its only running on 2 cylinders"

I said "aside from" before and you insisted that thats what made him a bad leader, even though I clearly said aside from. This is an emotional response to the challenge of the statement. I know the genocide and mass murder made him a bad leader, but if you dont look at them he was actually quite an effective leader who was able to take a broken country during a depression and turn it around.

Now before you make another emotional response, understand that I am no love rof Hitler, he killed plenty of my own family too even if I didnt know them, I know he still did. It couldnt have been easy being named Hoffman in germany in WW2 which I had mucho family of.

It actually is quite easy to understand your posts if they are read calmly and without one's fingers hovering over the keyboard like flaming daggers. So, never fear; I got it

Haha... flaming daggers of angry posts +9!!!!

I got it too! Thats not the point.

My point is that in light of the mass killings, no amount of good that he had done for the country makes two shits worth of difference. You can't say "aside from killing 7,000,000 and committing one of the worst atrocities mankind has ever seen, he was a great guy" because the atrocities outweigh the goodness, no matter how many orphans he fed, or old women he helped cross the street. Its simple logic.

Actually no one is saying he's a great guy. To steal from DM that is actually a straw man. I said he was an effective and good leader if you don't look at the shit he did to the jews. (Whom by the way he wasn't leading)

Its not logic, its emotional reasoning which is not reason at all. Especially when you change the terms of what we are discussing. No one called him a great guy.

You're "logic" would be like saying The Unibomber couldn't do math and wasn't smart because he killed people!!!!!!111one.

Yeah... that didn't make any sense. But nice try!

What didn't make any sense? Your argument based on emotion? I agree.

It's his appearance combined with his foreign policy. If he were the president, or anyone else who follows a non-interventionism doctrine to the same degree, legitimate American interests wouldn't get the attention they deserve, and it would be as disastrous as the Carter administration. Global power politics are more like a 4th grade playground than a debating society, and you can't look like a pussy when you engage other leaders for any reason. That's why I like Duncan Hunter, he looks like he could punch you in the face if you give him a dirty look, and even though he isn't as libertarian as Paul, I agree with him on all the issues that are most important to me.

I have no emotion towards hitler, He's one of my favorite things to joke about. I just think that the genocide of 7,000,000 people isnt something you can put aside to discuss the merits of his road building programs and domestic morale improvement.

Having a secret police who may or may not take you away in the night to a death camp is a good way to motivate your populace. That doesnt mean that you are a good leader because of it.

I've heard 6 million my entire life, when did it go up to 7?

On the Hitler topic, I'm no fan of his, or anyone else that uses the word Socialist in the title of their party, but we went about fighting WW2 all wrong. In hindsight, how much sense did it make in 1941 to ally with Joe Stalin, who had already killed 20-30 million of his own people, to fight against Hitler, who was just getting started on his 6 million people?

I don't think he said he was a good leader because of secret police. I think he said that if you don't count genocide, his policies were sound. I'm trying to figure out what you're arguing. We all know the Holocaust was wrong. But if you don't think about the Holocaust and just look at the other stuff is what he's saying.

I didn't even say good leader, I said competent and effective. So I am not sure what he is arguing either.

12 million. Six million jews, six million others.

Also, there was the whole socialism thing, quashing of free speech and invading other countries.