No. Humanity by nature is fairly cruel. Murder will always be a part of society; any society. The only way to completely do away with murder is to do away with our humanity. Basically become robots without emotion. But we can assure that those who commit murder face the consequences of thier actions.

The rules of our society will not change so widely as to popularly accept murderers. If it ever does I will assure myself by continuing to pack my 9MM or my .40 Auto. That way if I come across someone attempting to murder another I can make sure they never do it again. Here in Utah I can defend a third parties life with my concealed weapon. I would never shoot to wound either

Your support for the death penalty comes from the notion that it prevents future crime once a person is found guilty. So is a person who steals more likly to commit another crime? is that crime more likly to be ratched up when compared to there first crime? can we someway determine the likley hood of that crime being murder and then just kill the car thief to prevent that future murder?

Law does not (I should say should not in todays backwards court system) judge an indivduals moral character. It only applies penalties to fact. To say a person is beyond redemtion is to judge an indivduals moral character. Once you sit in judgement of someone based on moral character you have opened the door for everything a door that swings both ways.

We have some of the lowest crime statistics in the United States here in Utah and we have the highest ratio of CFP's per capita in the nation as well. 2+2=4 in my book

If I am in Utah and in danger of being murdered I hope you are there to provide assistance. I mean that in true sincerety.

Think about what consquence implies.

And yet were not all murders and rapists, but still we are a part of humanity does that suggest that society could be changed in such away that no member will commit murder or rape?

Screw morals. By our societies standards murder is wrong. Murderers deserve death. By thier own hands they sow thier fate. Leaving them alive may comfort some liberal hearts but it does nothing else except make them even more rotten than they began. 100+ years ago we used to hang horse thieves, I think our justice system has come a long ways.

I would provide that assistance. In a heart-beat. I detest murderers and those who would commit bodily harm upon another for no good reason.

No. In order to assure that noone would commit murder we would have to change the very way we view life and emotions. People get angry. Good people get angry and commit atrocities. Just over a week ago a young Bosnian man committed multiple atrocities at Trolley Square only 5 blocks from where I live and he was not a bad man. Anyone can snap. That is part of being human. I do not know about you but I like being human.

murder is wrong = a moral principle, arent you screwing morals or would you like to amend that statement.

"100 years ago we used to hang horse thiefs" we did away with that death penalty and "I think our justice system has come along way" so removale of death as a penalty is forward prograss for our justice system?

good people dont commit atricotes such a person is flawed. your talking about an individual focus on society there exists in this society factors that make a person snap. it stands to reason that if you remove those factors you remove the capacity for the individual to snap.

Once a thief, always a thief. but please lets stop talking about petty crime. I dont recall the last time someone was sentenced to death for stealing. We wwere talking about murderers etc. Do I believe that once someone murders someone else in cold blood theres a good chance he will do it again? you better fucking beleive I do.

Your attempt at equations is failing.

Screw morals. Morals at thier heart are personal and are not the end all be all of right and wrong. Right and wrong within a society of people is decided on the basis of what is good for the whole of that society and not by morals. As such morals have puke all to do with our legal system.

We did away with a death penalty that was NOT good for the whole of society. Thieves can often overcome thier illegal intentions. There is a penalty in place for thieves. One that is somewhat antiquated and needs overhauling but it is in place nonetheless. The removal of a penalty that is quite overwhelming in response to the crime has nothing to do with murderers. That statement had everything to do with your suggestion that our legal system sucks. It does not. It keeps our society thriving and has done so fo rmany years. It has its failings but so do we.

I would have to disagree on this one.

I was quite the thief in my younger years. But I learned my lesson and have reformed my ways.

Moral Prinicples and what is good for society its the same damn thing at the end of the day. Here's a challenge find me a "good for society" that isnt a moral principle. Morals have everything to do with our are legal system they are the basis for law.

I never said that the legal system sucks I said in a nutshell that we have moved away from judgeing facts to judgeing morality which is primarly the failing of the system. Our legal system is brilliant we create the rules that the law enforces. What we have done in the court is moved away from judgeing acts and facts to judgeing an indivduals morality. Your guy that snapped who is a "good person" do you think he will have a lesser sentence because he is percived as a "good person"?

36 safests state in 2006 not bad (50 is safest)

Wisconsin and Nebraska which do not allow CCW permits came in at 44 and 34 respectively

The number 1 most dangerous state is Nevada which "has shall" issue CCW permits in the legal language

Alaska is number 9 and Vermont is number 48 these states do not require any permit to carry concealed.

2+2 = apparently an unkown non existing relationship. I like guns to but this idea floats as much water as Al Gores global warming

I found that Utah has a forceiable rape average higher then the national average whats up with that the chicks dont carry the guns

no, prison and the death penalty is a deterent. all the cop shows and the stajonavan guy with the ominous narritive says clearly "you fuck around, you go to jail" "you dont want to die, dont kill someone in cold blood" (to sound somewhat cleche but thats what those shows are) it says to me "since the person you hurt or killed couldnt or didnt take your life, we're going to do it for him.

you bring that kind of hurt down on the average person and ill put money on that they'll flintch.

Nope. They are not. It is morally reprehensible to cage a man. Yet we do it every day because it is good for society.
Morals are in no way the basis for law. The basis for laws in any country are based on what is good for society. Some of the things that are good for society can be confused with moral principle yet in the end morals have shit all to do with our laws.

Nope we have slugs who come here to college from other states. They end up spending time in our jails though We also have polywogs Polygamists that is. Alot of them get caught, arrested, and spend time in jail.

SLC is one of the cleanest cities I have ever seen and its worst areas are still pretty damn safe.

Like I said.... Utah has the highest amount of CFP's issued per capita in ALL 50 states. In other words more people take advantage of the CFP here than anywhere else in the United States. We also have some of the best firearm laws anywhere.

All court cases are based on facts.

His sentence was 11 bullets. Fatally wounded and killed by SLC SWAT and Drug Gang Squad Officers. He found his perfect consequence for his actions. No. He would have probably faced the death sentence.