Well, there's two possibilities here.

1) You're right.

2) You're a brainless fucking moron who's incapable of actually addressing the issues raised by another in a coherent and logical manner, so you need to conceive of strawmen to attack instead of, you, know, not being an idiot.



Luckily, I have a very easy test to figure out which it is. All you have to do is find where I said prisoners should work only five hours a day and be paid for the labor. Go ahead. I'll wait.

What they SHOULD do and what they ACTUALLY do are differnt things.

Even IF they worked a full day it STILL doesnt mitigate the costs of thier incarceration. Working in a kitchen and folding sheets doesnt actually give any benefit to society.. *IF* anything it just takes jobs away from people who need money, so these scum are folding sheets and working in kitchens to feed who? inmates... lovely... this doesnt make thier sheets, and food any cheaper to buy WITH taxpayers money.

Way to address any points by the way. Typical DM toss a little info in its face and it cant stand it.

And yet, as I talked about getting rid of the death penalty, clearly what we're talking about is not what they currently do, but what they should do. While I don't believe in pointless cruelty or inhumane conditions, I do think hard work is more productive and more rehabilitative than the current system in either life or death sentencing.

First of all, thanks for having no idea how economics work. More people producing doesn't hurt the economy. It does the opposite. And I'm actually suggesting harder labor like tending parks, cleaning up roadways, lawn mowing, trash service, etc...

What exactly is it that you imagine I have failed to address?

Beautiful... we should have rapists and murderers tending public parks... lovely idea hope it catches on. Moron.

Try this for economics.

jobs murderers are suited to in the public = ? A: 0 thanks for playing. Therefore they get stuck doing what? Thats right Washing Dishes and Folding Sheets FOR the prison. Who doesnt get to wash the sheets or fold laundry? Anyone who might get paid for it... very good. youre doing splendidly. So Criminal contributes what to society? lets make this a Multiple Choice question is it:

A: Nothing
B: Zilch
or C: Not a goddamned thing.

What you HAVENT addressed in any meaningful manner is how to actually prove your claim that its cheaper to feed, cloth, medicate, and coddle someone for 20, 30 or 40 years before they die of gang rape or old age, rather than to execute them. You spewed a few chunks of someone else's rhetoric which only takes into account the average of executions costs in the long vs the short term costs of incarceration. I want you to compare say 50 years per life sentenced inmate vs the cost of executing them.

Life for a life. Kill and ye shall be killed. From ancient laws to modern laws this has always been the way of it. Coddling them is no way to repay those who hav eto live with the knowledge that a murderer of a loved one still lives. Call it revenge if you want.




Our opinions differ. You are not an idiot. We just have differing viewpoints. I value my viewpoints and opinions and would like to hear more of yours without the empty rhetoric or the stupid insults. It would be nice for a change. I can counter all the points you care to toss out.



I grew up in a Hispanic family setting and many of my cousins, uncles, etc were not very savory people. Many spent years of thier lives in and out of prison. I have heard all about San Quentin, Pelican Bay, and others. It is not Sunday school yet it is far more than they deserve and YES they have Televisions, 3 square meals a day, blankets and beds, warmth, and many other things that even our homeless population does not have available to them. As such they are CODDLED. Do not assume that I am uneducated nor that I do not know anything. Nor should you believe everything you read. many of my cousins made a lot of money selling drugs, and cigs in jail. Everything you can think of is available in there. Pot, coke, speed, booze, etc etc. Some provided by the guards themselves. It is a community unto itself.



It is very relevant.



A business has nothing to do with murder. Your wonderful comparisons pale compared to the truth. When you end a life you should be aware of the FACT that your life can end as well in just punishment. There are no factors needed when considering this. Life is sacred. If you end a life you should lose yours. End of story.

A box of 50 9MM bullets at gallensons here in SLC is 7.50. I could execute 50 murderers for $7.50 plus state tax VS. the 1-2Million$$++ it takes to feed and cloth the bastards for 40+years. And who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give the fuckers cable tv???

You want a convicted murdering child molester cleaning your city parks??? Are you absolutely insane??? Really now.

I worked alongside a State Prison Fire Fighting Crew in the 1987 California Wildfires at Three Rivers and none of them were violent offenders. California is smart and do not allow violent offenders to work in any way where they would interact with the public.

It would not be very intelligent to allow any violent offender or sex offender to work in an environment where they interact with the public. Too many variables and way to dangerous. If you do not think so please be my guest and invite a prison workgroup to clean out your backyard

Oh. Get this for fucking facts. A homeless man with a possibly life threatening dental affliction would have to come up with the cash or die. In prison that murderer you want to coddle gets all his dental for free. For FREE!!!!

Seems like a small price to pay, for me. I cant debate this shit with you people anymore, you have no view of the larger picture, and all it does is make me angry.

Interesting how? Why is it any more damaging then any other market structure?

I have a complete view of th elarger picture. I can honestly say that any picture is better when murderers are executed. We reward murder with a life sentence of 3 squares a day + free medical, dental, vision and a roof over thier heads?? That is ridiculous. We should not have to pay any price to a murderer. They should have to pay a price for thier crimes. That price should match the crime. Murder should equal execution.

It is not. Capitalism has existed for a few hundred years in the USA and it has done quite fine and shows no signs of breaking apart. Anyone can be successful in a free market economy.

we do owe a price, the cost of faliure. a society which contains murders must pay the price of generating those murders. There is a cost to kill them and a cost to house them eithier way we pay. I say the death penalty is wrong because a society should not bear the burden of murder. No matter how just or how moraly equivelent anyone thinks it is in the end the society has taken a life when we have the opputunity not to.

All most be careful being overally zealous is dangerous no matter how just the cause.

They had the opportunity not too as well. Yet they still did. housing murderers for life equals more money as well as giving them the opportunity to murder again. Irregardless of who it is they would be murdering again, a guard or another inmate, it does give them that opportunity.

Society owes a debt to its citizens. That debt is payable in full. We owe it to the murderer to be sure they will not commit that crime again. The only way to be 100% sure is to execute them.

Time lessens all evils. 25 years afterwards those murderers may be given the opportunity to be set free. This has happened before and will happen again. It is sick and wrong as well as very unjust. They deserve execution. Upon committing the murder they give up all rights and should be given thier due.

Oppurtunity is a dangerous word Dyshade.

They did have a choice an individual choice, but it stands to reason that the cause of that choice lies somewhere in a flaw of the society. thats not to say an indivdual is not responsible for there actions and should be penalized however the simple fact is a society which contains the capacity for murder amongts its citezens is flawed. We also know as individuals we are flawed, if someone did something to my family I would certainly want to pay them back 10 fold. But our society can strive to be perfect, it is in a society that we begin to let go of the animal and embrace the humane. Society can say the individual has taken a life against the will of another, and although justice can be seen in reciprcating that act, Society can rise above revenge and not act in that way.

Society can only be as great as the humans that spawned it. Humanity is flawed therefore society shall always be flawed. Using this as an excuse for murder is exactly that, an excuse and nothing more. Using justice to execute a murderer is simple logic. Housing them assures further atrocities. Executing them assures society as a whole that they will no longer be a threat. It also assures those with murderous thoughts that they face only death if they follow through with thier thoughts.

What is to keep homeless men and women from murdering others if they know that all they face is a life imprisoned with 3 meals a day and free medical??? It would almost seem alluring.

No. We need to execute murderers. They need to die, not out of revenge, they need to die because they are a threat to society. Perfection will never be attained, but we can damn well assure ourselves that simple justice will.

Don't prisoners sentenced to death have unlimited appeals? I think that's good enough to ensure the amount of "innocent" people that get the death penalty is very low. People sit on death row for years. If that's not enough time to prove your innocence or at least shed enough doubt on the conviction to command a retrial, then I don't know what is.