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Myth: Schools don't have enough money - 01-18-06

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Myth: Schools don't have enough money

"Stossel is an idiot who should be fired from ABC and sent back to elementary school to learn journalism." "Stossel is a right-wing extremist ideologue."

The hate mail is coming in to ABC over a TV special I did Friday (1/1. I suggested that public schools had plenty of money but were squandering it, because that's what government monopolies do.

Many such comments came in after the National Education Association (NEA) informed its members about the special and claimed that I have a "documented history of blatant antagonism toward public schools."

The NEA says public schools need more money. That's the refrain heard in politicians' speeches, ballot initiatives and maybe even in your child's own classroom. At a union demonstration, teachers carried signs that said schools will only improve "when the schools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."

Not enough money for education? It's a myth.

The truth is, public schools are rolling in money. If you divide the U.S. Department of Education's figure for total spending on K-12 education by the department's count of K-12 students, it works out to about $10,000 per student.

Think about that! For a class of 25 kids, that's $250,000 per classroom. This doesn't include capital costs. Couldn't you do much better than government schools with $250,000? You could hire several good teachers; I doubt you'd hire many bureaucrats. Government schools, like most monopolies, squander money.

America spends more on schooling than the vast majority of countries that outscore us on the international tests. But the bureaucrats still blame school failure on lack of funds, and demand more money.

In 1985, some of them got their wish. Kansas City, Mo., judge Russell Clark said the city's predominately black schools were not "halfway decent," and he ordered the government to spend billions more. Did the billions improve test scores? Did they hire better teachers, provide better books? Did the students learn anything?

Well, they learned how to waste lots of money.

The bureaucrats renovated school buildings, adding enormous gyms, an Olympic swimming pool, a robotics lab, TV studios, a zoo, a planetarium, and a wildlife sanctuary. They added intense instruction in foreign languages. They spent so much money that when they decided to bring more white kids to the city's schools, they didn't have to resort to busing. Instead, they paid for 120 taxis. Taxis!

What did spending billions more accomplish? The schools got worse. In 2000, five years and $2 billion later, the Kansas City school district failed 11 performance standards and lost its academic accreditation for the first time in the district's history.

A study by two professors at the Hoover Institution a few years ago compared public and Catholic schools in three of New York City's five boroughs. Parochial education outperformed the nation's largest school system "in every instance," they found -- and it did it at less than half the cost per student.

"Everyone has been conned -- you can give public schools all the money in America, and it will not be enough," says Ben Chavis, a former public school principal who now runs the American Indian Charter School in Oakland, Calif. His school spends thousands less per student than Oakland's government-run schools spend.

Chavis saves money by having students help clean the grounds and set up for lunch. "We don't have a full-time janitor," he told me. "We don't have security guards. We don't have computers. We don't have a cafeteria staff." Since Chavis took over four years ago, his school has gone from being among the worst middle schools in Oakland to the one where the kids get the best test scores. "I see my school as a business," he said. "And my students are the shareholders. And the families are the shareholders. I have to provide them with something."

Award-winning news correspondent John Stossel is co-anchor of ABC News "20/20" and author of "Give Me a Break."

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...18/182750.html
Tear it all down, bust the unions, and start from scratch.

Too bad that will never happen.
  
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01-21-06

and stop building fancy school stadiums



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01-21-06

1. Is there any form of proof about this "They spent billions"?
2. They talk about how much money there is, alledgely, for each child. They do not, however, seem to take into consideration employee wages, as well as many other things that cost money.
3. In relation to Chavis, forcing children to do manual labor without offering them compensation in terms of wages would be akin to forced slavery, it's something that any of those childrens families could easily counter by going "Excuse me? I'm doing the Janitor's job but not getting paid? Cough up the cash or kiss my ass".


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01-21-06

You'd think with all the money spent on education kids would be a little smarter. In fact, they seem to be getting dumber. I don't know how many young adults I know in the work force that are only functionally literate. At the very basic level.

Maybe they need to buy fewer pools and concentrate on a better curiculum and some higher standards.

And I think I butchered the word curiculum. THAT'S MY POINT!


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01-21-06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Lady
You'd think with all the money spent on education kids would be a little smarter. In fact, they seem to be getting dumber. I don't know how many young adults I know in the work force that are only functionally literate. At the very basic level.

Maybe they need to buy fewer pools and concentrate on a better curiculum and some higher standards.

And I think I butchered the word curiculum. THAT'S MY POINT!
The money spent on a child does not increase the capabilities of that child mentally.

The child must be taught by someone who either knows what they're doing, or must be taught while being /receptive/ to the idea of learning, which many children are not. You can't make someone learn if they run around stabbing the other students with pencils and scissors.


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01-21-06

Then why isn't more money being spent on teacher's salaries? If they're such an integral part of learning, why doesn't that expenditure override the purchase of a new gym?


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01-21-06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Lady
Then why isn't more money being spent on teacher's salaries? If they're such an integral part of learning, why doesn't that expenditure override the purchase of a new gym?

Teachers are paid by the government.
The government is not known for paying a lot.


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01-21-06

Umm... isn't that what we're talking about?


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03-29-07

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The problem isn't that they don't pay teachers enough. The problem is that there are no financial rewards for a teacher to work harder and do a better job. When you fail to reward the teachers that work harder, you are rewarding the teachers that work less, because they are functionally being paid more relative to their effort.

Note that for the 10k a year you spend per student, you could send your child to pretty much any religious private school, and most sectarian private schools, with money left over. Something to think about.

Also, ban high school football. Seriously. It's ridiculous how much stupid fucking principals and stupid fucking teachers and stupid fucking parents spend on this shit while slashing the arts, languages, and other actually valuable learning departments. I'm all for physical fitness, but get a better gym that's designed to help all your students get in shape and attain healthy bodies, not just to abuse the bodies of thirty guys for school pride while giving them passes in every class and depriving them of an actual education.

That's American football. Actual football is completely safe because Americans find it so mind-numbingly boring to watch that there's absolutely no chance of it taking over and siphoning life from the academic departments.


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03-30-07

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Originally Posted by Dark Messiah View Post
The problem isn't that they don't pay teachers enough. The problem is that there are no financial rewards for a teacher to work harder and do a better job. When you fail to reward the teachers that work harder, you are rewarding the teachers that work less, because they are functionally being paid more relative to their effort.
This is one of the primary functions of a union. In addition to protecting worthless fucks who should be fired, they limit what individuals can recieve in bonuses and other incentives for superior performance. Public schools suck, and will continue to suck until we bust the teachers unions. Of all the unions, that one deserves to have its back broken the most.

Quote:
Note that for the 10k a year you spend per student, you could send your child to pretty much any religious private school, and most sectarian private schools, with money left over. Something to think about.
That's why the teacher union opposes any school voucher program, it would destroy them.

Quote:
Also, ban high school football. Seriously. It's ridiculous how much stupid fucking principals and stupid fucking teachers and stupid fucking parents spend on this shit while slashing the arts, languages, and other actually valuable learning departments. I'm all for physical fitness, but get a better gym that's designed to help all your students get in shape and attain healthy bodies, not just to abuse the bodies of thirty guys for school pride while giving them passes in every class and depriving them of an actual education.
Did you get beat up by the jocks? I got along with most of them.

Many schools are switching to a pay-to-play system, with fundraisers to help out the poor kids. Unfortunately we have to undermine an American tradition so that the stupid fucking principal's executive assistant can hire their own executive assistant.
  
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03-30-07

Steve Jobs Has Guts

By JAY GREENE
February 21, 2007
A D V E R T I S E M E N T
A D V E R T I S E M E N T

Steve Jobs has guts — enough guts to speak his mind about what he thinks is wrong with public education even at the risk of harming his business interests.

In a speech on Friday, the chief executive officer of Apple and Disney honcho declared: "I believe that what's wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way."

The problem with unionization, Mr. Jobs argued, is that it has constrained schools from attracting and retaining the best teachers and from dismissing the less effective ones. This, in turn, deters quality people from seeking to become principals and superintendents. "What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn't get rid of people that they thought weren't any good? Not really great ones because if you're really smart you go, ‘I can't win,'" Mr. Jobs said. He concluded by saying, "This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy."

There is a price to be paid for this kind of frank analysis and Steve Jobs knows it. " Apple just lost some business in this state, I'm sure," Mr. Jobs said. Of course, Apple sells a large portion of its computers to public school systems. By taking a stance against school unionization, Mr. Jobs may lose some school sales for Apple.

http://www.nysun.com/article/48971
  
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03-30-07

The system really could use a dramatic revamp but one thing that I think would really help is to grant significant raises in pay for teachers that attain a seniority period. Say 5 years for starters. That way, you'd maintain the benefit of drawing Teachers who really want to Teach and reward those who show real dedication.


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03-31-07

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The system really could use a dramatic revamp but one thing that I think would really help is to grant significant raises in pay for teachers that attain a seniority period. Say 5 years for starters. That way, you'd maintain the benefit of drawing Teachers who really want to Teach and reward those who show real dedication.
Great idea, can't happen until the union is busted.
  
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03-31-07

Senior teachers already make more money. That's the only way to get a raise under the current system.

I would suggest a formula something like;

[40k + (1k x Years spent teaching)] x (Average student score in a final exam)/100]

So, for instance, if you've taught four years, and your average student's test score is 88%, you would make a little under 39k a year. Alternately, if you've taught twenty years, and your average student test score is 62%, you'd get just over 37K. Someone two years out with an average test score in the same range would get around 25K.

Of course, this requires a final grade arrived at by a proctored final exam determined by a higher teaching power, rather than the teachers themselves giving grades, but I'm okay with that.

Basketball and baseball are great American traditions, too, but they don't try to suck all of the blood out of the arts and music departments. Why is football worth keeping around? It's overhyped, and more than any other sport we practice in our schools, it's prejudiced in favor of a body type that only a handful of students can really achieve.


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04-23-07

The money the athletic director puts towards football is already under an umbrella of sports expenditures. If it wasnt going there, it would go to another sport. The problem isnt just football then, its the way the schoolboard sets up its budget in general.
The academic requirements for sports however may increase a students desire to succeed. Our school had a system that all student athletes had to get certain grades to be eligible. this is not as strict as it could be, but it exists. The idea to blame sports, esp one in particular is kind of a red herring here. Its not the bane of the school system. Its another symptom,just like low test scores, of idiots in charge who dont understand how to run things well


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