Darkforum.com - Dark Stories, Dark Art, Poetry, Photography, Debates and Discussions
Home Register FAQ
Go Back   Darkforum.com - Dark Stories, Dark Art, Poetry, Photography, Debates and Discussions > Discussions > Serious Discussion
Reload this Page Mr. Kerry's Math
Serious Discussion Discuss Mr. Kerry's Math in the Discussions forums; Mr. Kerry's Math Wall Street Journal ^ | March 26, 2004 | R. GLENN HUBBARD http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/ John Kerry has a fiscal surprise in store for voters -- a massive ...

Register and remove some of the ads
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  (#1) Old
Lawson is Offline
Registered User
Lawson is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Lawson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,440
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 65,081
   
Mr. Kerry's Math - 03-26-04

Mr. Kerry's Math
Wall Street Journal ^ | March 26, 2004 | R. GLENN HUBBARD


http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/


John Kerry has a fiscal surprise in store for voters -- a massive tax increase or a ballooning federal deficit. The latest calculations show that the total of Sen. Kerry's spending and "investment" pledges runs to about $1.7 trillion over ten years. That's $1.7 trillion on top of what the government already plans to spend over the same time period.

More than half of Sen. Kerry's spending total comes from what he calls his top legislative priority for his first 100 days in office: a massive new health-care program. Kenneth Thorpe, a former Clinton administration official, now a scholar at Emory, determined that the Kerry health-care plan would cost $900 billion over 10 years. And Sen. Kerry himself, in a PBS interview, agreed that Mr. Thorpe's analysis is accurate.

In addition to that massive health-care plan, Sen. Kerry made more promises as he campaigned across America -- a few hundred million here, a few billion there. People who have spent time in the federal government may not be fazed by figures in the millions and billions. But by any standard, $1.7 trillion is real money. And to pay for this new spending? He claims that only some taxpayers will have to foot the bill for his spending kick. On the stump, he insists that only "the wealthiest Americans" -- those making over $200,000 a year -- would be forced to pay higher taxes in a Kerry administration.

So far, the senator's tax-hike proposals include: raising the top tax brackets, forcing individuals and small business owners to pay higher taxes; resurrecting the death tax, so that farmers and entrepreneurs will be forced to pay the government before they can pass on their life's work to their children; and rolling back the tax cuts on dividends and capital gains, so that Americans will have to pay higher taxes when they save and invest for the future. Such tax increases would be an unwise unraveling of the tax relief signed by President Bush. Even after a recession, the worst terrorist attack in our history, two wars, and major corporate accounting scandals, our economy is the fastest growing of all major industrialized nations. Economic activity has increased for nine consecutive quarters, and growth in the last half of 2003 was the fastest in nearly 20 years. Manufacturing output is increasing. Disposable income is rising. Inflation and interest rates are low. Job creation is also now picking up steam. Payroll employment has risen by 350,000 in the last six months, and the unemployment rate is falling.

By reducing marginal tax rates for workers and small business owners, President Bush's economic leadership has helped put our economy on the path to long-term, sustainable growth. And the president's most recent budget includes moderate increases in spending to achieve the goal of cutting the budget deficit relative to GDP in half over five years. Sen. Kerry's proposed tax increases would jeopardize this progress. And there's a catch -- we don't yet know the full extent of the Kerry tax hikes.

Besides proposing $1.7 trillion in new spending, Sen. Kerry has pledged to cut the budget deficit in half in his first term. That means that all of his new spending programs must be offset by tax increases or spending cuts -- and he certainly hasn't proposed much in the way of cutting spending. Instead, he claims he can raise taxes on upper-income earners and small business owners to pay for all of his spending plans. But the numbers show otherwise. If you add up all of his proposed tax increases, the extra revenue would be at most $700 billion over 10 years. That leaves a hole of $1 trillion.

Laws of math cannot be repealed -- one cannot increase federal spending by $1.7 trillion over 10 years, slash the deficit over four years, and raise taxes only on those earning $200,000-plus to pay for the rest. More Americans would pay higher taxes under John Kerry's administration than John Kerry is willing to let on. Fully funding his promises would require repealing the entire Bush tax cuts, implying large tax increases for lower- and middle-income workers.

Now, Sen. Kerry has been reluctant to offer details about his spending and tax plans for fear of alienating voters as the campaign heats up. But the American people deserve a full accounting of how much a vote for John Kerry in November would cost in the years ahead.


************************

Just as I said, and now the Wall Street Journal agrees. Kerry's numbers don't add up, and he would aising everyone's taxes, if he stood a snowball's chance in hell of winning.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#2) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-26-04

It'll cost $900 billion in 10 years? A far cry from Bush's $10.2 trillion in 4 years.


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#3) Old
Lawson is Offline
Registered User
Lawson is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Lawson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,440
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 65,081
   
03-26-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
It'll cost $900 billion in 10 years? A far cry from Bush's $10.2 trillion in 4 years.
Cite?



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#4) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-26-04

Also, he's mentioned fixing the offshore tax loophole. But some idealogues will believe what they believe regardless of the evidence to the contrary.


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#5) Old
Lawson is Offline
Registered User
Lawson is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Lawson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,440
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 65,081
   
03-26-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
Also, he's mentioned fixing the offshore tax loophole. But some idealogues will believe what they believe regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

Cite?



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#6) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-26-04

I'm not in the mood to go web-surfing (brushing my teeth and going to bed), but here goes a few.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2095237/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...h.spending.ap/

[WASHINGTON (AP) -- Conservatives wait warily as President Bush makes final decisions about his election-year budget, three years into an administration on whose watch spending has mushroomed by 23.7 percent, the fastest pace in a decade.]


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/j...20030613.shtml (conservative site )

http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Econ...ral_Budget.pdf


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#7) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-26-04

All in the top 10 on "bush spending" in google.


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#8) Old
Lawson is Offline
Registered User
Lawson is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Lawson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,440
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 65,081
   
03-26-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
I'm not in the mood to go web-surfing (brushing my teeth and going to bed), but here goes a few.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2095237/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...h.spending.ap/

[WASHINGTON (AP) -- Conservatives wait warily as President Bush makes final decisions about his election-year budget, three years into an administration on whose watch spending has mushroomed by 23.7 percent, the fastest pace in a decade.]


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/j...20030613.shtml (conservative site )

http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Econ...ral_Budget.pdf

Just as I thought. Not one of your links mentions $10.2 trillon over 4 years.

Try again.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#9) Old
Lawson is Offline
Registered User
Lawson is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Lawson's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,440
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 65,081
   
03-26-04

It's also funny how you are complaining about spending, when Kerry is the biggest spender in the Senate, and won't cut the budget anywhere.

I guess that's liberal "antilogic".



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#10) Old
John Preston is Offline
Listen
John Preston is on a distinguished road
 
John Preston's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,395
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Sep 2000
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 256,181
   
03-26-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
It's also funny how you are complaining about spending, when Kerry is the biggest spender in the Senate, and won't cut the budget anywhere.

I guess that's liberal "antilogic".
Oh oohhh ohhh

"Cite"


(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#11) Old
RedHawk is Offline
Registered User
RedHawk is on a distinguished road
 
RedHawk's Avatar
 
Posts: 476
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: michigan
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 19,178
   
03-27-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
Also, he's mentioned fixing the offshore tax loophole. But some idealogues will believe what they believe regardless of the evidence to the contrary.
If Kerry fixed this offshore loophole, would that increase the price of the items that these companies manufacture? In other words, would the price of foreign manufactured goods go up? :jerk:


RedHawk
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#12) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-27-04

Oh yes, I forgot :jerk: is a sign of a lack of argument. Weee.


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#13) Old
RedHawk is Offline
Registered User
RedHawk is on a distinguished road
 
RedHawk's Avatar
 
Posts: 476
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: michigan
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 19,178
   
03-27-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
Oh yes, I forgot :jerk: is a sign of a lack of argument. Weee.:tp:
Well? Would it or wouldn't it?

It looks to me like it is YOU who are trying to avoid the argument. :jerk:

You DO have an argument, don't you?


RedHawk
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#14) Old
SirVLCIV is Offline
Lusus Naturę
SirVLCIV
 
SirVLCIV's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,940
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ, US
Zodiac Sign: Pisces
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 201,987
   
03-27-04

I've already stated my argument repeatedly. You have yet to back yours up with any data whatsoever. And no, emoticons do not count as data.


Bismarck once said "Fools say they like to learn from their experiences, but I prefer to learn from the experience of others."

"Move that one of your pieces, which is in the worst plight, unless you can satisfy yourself that you can derive immediate advantage by an attack." -Adolph Anderssen


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#15) Old
RedHawk is Offline
Registered User
RedHawk is on a distinguished road
 
RedHawk's Avatar
 
Posts: 476
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: michigan
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 19,178
   
03-28-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVLCIV
I've already stated my argument repeatedly. You have yet to back yours up with any data whatsoever. And no, emoticons do not count as data.
Well, I went back over this thread and it seems that I didn't MAKE any statement.

All I did was ask a question. A question that you seem reluctant to answer, so I will ask again:


"If Kerry fixed this offshore loophole, would that increase the price of the items that these companies manufacture? In other words, would the price of foreign manufactured goods go up? "

Now IFFIN you can, will you give me your answer?

And IFFIN you can't will you agree that you don't know what you are talking about? :woo:


RedHawk
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#16) Old
John Preston is Offline
Listen
John Preston is on a distinguished road
 
John Preston's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,395
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Sep 2000
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 256,181
   
03-28-04

Depends on if export or imports go up, and so on and so forth.


(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#17) Old
RedHawk is Offline
Registered User
RedHawk is on a distinguished road
 
RedHawk's Avatar
 
Posts: 476
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: michigan
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 19,178
   
03-28-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Preston
Depends on if export or imports go up, and so on and so forth.
Well John, you seem to at least have an idea to express, would you care to elaborate on it?

If, for example, imports went up, would the price of those products go down, or up, and vice versa.?


RedHawk
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#18) Old
John Preston is Offline
Listen
John Preston is on a distinguished road
 
John Preston's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,395
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Sep 2000
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 256,181
   
03-28-04

Depends on if laws are set up to stop price hikes.
That's the right term right?

I can never remember those economical related crappy things..I mostly ignored my Economics teacher when he talked about importing/exporting


(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
  (#19) Old
RedHawk is Offline
Registered User
RedHawk is on a distinguished road
 
RedHawk's Avatar
 
Posts: 476
Gallery: 0
Comments: 0
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: michigan
Zodiac Sign: Aquarius
Rating: Not Rated
Credits: 19,178
   
03-28-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Preston
Depends on if laws are set up to stop price hikes.
That's the right term right?

I can never remember those economical related crappy things..I mostly ignored my Economics teacher when he talked about importing/exporting
I think the term is correct.

Now, the reason I asked if whats-his-name up above thought that prices would go up on imported goods under Kerry's plan is that I already know that prices would indeed go up. That is the stradigy--to make IMPORTED products more EXPENSIVE so that our domestically produced products are more economically attractive to American consumers. The idea is to force American companies to build plants in America, and hire American workers.

Sounds like a helluva idea--right?

BUT, when we DO that, then stuff begins to cost more. The VCR takes a shit and instead of going to Walmart and buying another one for $100, we now gotta pay $150. Want a new pair of Jeans? Figure on paying about 1-1/2 times as much as you have been paying, because thay are being produced by Americans making between 15 and 20 $ pr. hr. instead of by some Mexican makinf 2$ a day. I can go on, but I am sure that you see what I am getting at.

So, the question now is--IS THIS REALLY WHAT WE WANT?


RedHawk
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us