I'm sick of all the presidential primary nonsense, I can't find a single candidate worth a damn. Hillary is a socialist, Obama is a child, Huckabee is a one-issue zealot, Romney is too, Edwards is a communist, Juliani is a sleaze, I don't trust Mccan, and Ron Paul is a fucking lunatic.

Im middle of the road on the whole Democrat/Republican thing. I tend to be economically Republican and Socially Democratic. I think the smaller and less intrusive the government is, the better. I think lower taxes stimulate the economy. I'm all for winning the war in Iraq. But at the same time I pretty much loathe any religious involvement in politics. I don't see why gays cant get married, isn't this a free society after all? I hate the death penalty.

These views seem logical to me. I truly can't understand how anybody who loves their freedom and has a mind grounded in the real world could see things any other way... but I also realize that many people do, so I'm trying to find a candidate who sees things as close to my way as possible... but fucking none of them do! I'm lucky if I agree with one tenth of the platform of any of these douchebags, they all seem to be pandering to their bases and saying "fuck you" to those of us who think for ourselves on the individual issues.

I'm actually leaning toward just not voting at all, or hoping a viable 3rd party candidate pops up. I'm tired of voting for the lesser evil, its a sellout move and I don't want to do it anymore.

Crazy as it sounds, but given the choice of the current crop of assholes or another 4 years of Bush, I would be behind Dubya. At least he's a familiar asshole.

not voting is basically a vote so you just don't get to decide who it was cast for.

I follow all of the candidates as best I can. But for me, anyone is better then Billary. And I won't vote for the Silky Pony (Edwards) for many of the same reasons as I will vote against Clinton.

You didn't mention Thompson and he is expected to take 2nd or 3rd in Iowa. Any particular reason?

From your brief listing of viewpoints, I would say, your least of the evils would be Rudy. Only because he is a social liberal, but fiscal conservative.

In our recent elections, I was in the same situation.

The way I did it was work out the worst and gradually work forward from there. Whereas most people do it the other way around.

Bottom of my list was Family First. Not even grinning Johnny Howard was that bad.

Isn't that the root of the problem with politics in America though? Seems like year after year we're left to decide which is the least bad of the lot, rather than the best.

I had hopes for the Independent Party, before Pat Robertson jackbooted his loony ass into the middle of it and took a shit on it.

Speaking of Robertson, anyone else amazed that he tipped his hat to Giuliani for the nomination? How does a hardcore evangelical explain backing a man who's vocally pro-choice and pro gay marriage by any reason other than hypocrisy?

Ron Paul is the only candidate that i would vote for, what he says makes sense.
If Hillary gets elected, or as Axantha put it, Billary, then god help us all.

And I dont like religious involvement in politics, its supposed to be church separated from state. So gay marriage, abortion, etc. seems like it would fall in the category of beliefs, and religion. We have a right to choose our religion, but religion doesn't have the right to control pubic policy.

Huckabee seems overly religious to me... I find voting for strongviewed, hardcore christian unsettling...

Every issue has the potential to be a religious one as long as someone uses their religion to back up, promote, or excuse their beliefs. I agree that religion has no place in governing political decisions, but unfortunately it's impossible for it not to. The only thing to do is choose a candidate whose beliefs closely mirror yours and then hope for the best. Or you can move to England like I did, which gives you free license to tell the whole of the country to fuck right off and none of these assholes can tell you that if you don't like it you can get out.

Zelos, have you read the recently re-released Ron Paul news letters? They make him sound like a racist and a hard core troofer.

I hope that Chris Wallace brings that up in the next debate so we can hear his explaination of it.

As for religion in politics, I disagree with you. There is no constitutional estabilshment of sepration of church and state. The intent was to prevent a specific religion from being established as government sponsered and dominating. A candidate with a religious background helps you to know what their moral compass points to.

Kinda like the black seperatism that Obama's church hints at so strongly.

You mean Foax News is actually gonna let him on the debate tonight? I was expecting them to exclude him again.. i'm defiantly gonna be watching that. As for the recent talk about Ron Paul being a racist, I believe its all bullshit. There is no actual evidence that he is a racist, it all seems like political slander to me. But I cant say I know 100%, but I strongly doubt it.

As for knowing a candidates moral compass through his religious background. Yeah, I can understand that, I sure as hell wouldn't elect a Satanist. But it seems to me, they rely to heavily (some) on there religion to get elected, rather than politics and the issues at hand. I'm not an Atheist, but it would be interesting to see one in the white house, although that will never happen, not for a looong time anyway.

Speaking of Obama, have you heard of Stormfront? "White Nationalist". Its hilarious to see what they have to say about a "Black Man" having a chance to be in the white house. In a way, I kinda want Obama to win just to piss off all those racist.

Yea, but if Obama wins, are you ready to turn over 55% of your gross pay as income tax? Not counting the other taxes he has hinted at.

I've read the newsletters that TNR is publishing from Ron Paul. Some of his comments are just downright odd. But he does accus MLK of sex with underage boys and girls.

From good old Thomas J.---

""
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Obama will never win. If it comes down to John McCain and Obama John will win. It probably will be a closer race if it comes down to Clinton and John

Like I said, I have heard from many sources that the newsletters were down right slander, and he has never said most, if any of what they say he has. Howeva, other than going on the sources, I'm going on instinct, because i've meet and talked with the man, and he, in no way at all, seems like a racist or prejudice [imo]. But who knows, I could be wrong. But anyway.

I don't really want Obama to win, I just said, in a way, I do. Just because it would piss off the people at Stormfront. Honestly, I dont like any of the Democratic candidates... I'm not republican nor democrat (independent). It seems tho... the way things are going, I'm not going to vote this year... southpark said it best, its like voting for either a Douchebag or a Terd Sandwitch....

im guessing it will be obama and romne


And I'll stay home on voting day.

Same here.

Are there any independent canidates out there this year that aren't crackpots? Now that it's actually a fucking election year I'll be looking into canidates, but I haven't seen a whole lot on the indie front, despite all the people that have supposedly left the Democrats and Republicans behind (people meaning voters, not canidates.)

Nope. Michael Bloomberg (the nannystater mayor of NYC) is considering a run, but that is as close as you get.

this thread isn't making my decision any easier...i'm still torn between ron paul and edwards though...mr. paull...i just can't understand how some man who has a lot of young, eager for change people supporting him on a personal get out there and demonstrate level, if he's that horrible...he seems to be the most popular in this area of montana...and i just like edwards.

Yeah, they keep saying on the news, if he decides to run, he will win. But.. i doubt that.

he would be in the same boat as Romney, having to spend his personal fortune on it. Basically, try and buy the presidency.

Which is what Soros wants by backing the Clinton's.

But he would be a spoiler for the Democrats if he did run.

Grassroots campaigns can be surprisingly effective, and Ron Paul has supporters that are specifically targeting the younger voter demographic. He's got a Myspace page, has supporters handing out flyers and talking to students on college campuses... The problem is, the flyers and the Myspace page say some pretty euphemisms, but don't offer solid takes on what Ron Paul stands for. Listen to the man for five minutes and you realize he's off his rocker.

I think Edwards has the unenviable position, at least in the primaries, of being to Barack Obama what Ralph Nader was to Al Gore in his campaign run...a guy without any real chance of winning who is going to suck votes away.