It all comes down to a simple fact: Government intervention in matters that can be handled privately is dangerous. Your situation is shitty, Wicked, and if I was rich enough to pay for YOUR healthcare out of my pocket, I would. But a marketplace with no competition leads to lowered quality of product. If the healthcare industry is gauranteed a paycheck from uncle sam, they arent going to take pains to keep their patients happy and healthy, because the patients will be coming back no matter what their opinions on the establishment.

If an insurance provider is guaranteed a paycheck from a corporation like.. Wal-Mart, do they automatically provide sub-standard care just because that check will always be rolling in?

Why wouldn’t it breed competition amongst the providers? When the government has a project, and they take bids from different sources, that encourages competition amongst the bidders. You work in construction. I work in construction. Virtually the same thing. And what I’ve suggested was a basic health plan for all qualifying adults. Not based on income precisely, but based on necessity. For instance people that fall through the cracks of the government’s existing health care aid. Like me. Limited coverage for everyone else. I.E a few doctor’s visits a year, and some basic dental. Some basic hospitalization and emergency care. Why do you think hospitals charge you $50 for a box of tissue? Because if you have insurance, they know they’ll pay. And oftentimes, the insurance companies are able to negotiate prices down for their clients. For instance, if I had been covered in the hospital, my bill would probably have been cut in half because my insurance provider is able to handle things like that, cut financial corners. All having some sort of national plan would do is take a few more dollars out of the pocket of taxpayers and help clean up a corrupt health care system and make it a little less easy for a doctor to drive a Mercedes. I see nothing wrong with that. And I’d gladly have an extra $5 taken out of my paycheck if it meant someone didn’t have to choose between rent and meds.

quality health care in america?

...doctors kill more people than guns.

it's pointless discussing this wicked, i tried and it all came down to me and my husband while we do work two jobs, switching hours to eliminate childcare costs, that we're just to lazy to afford it.

it's sad that our government and those who support it care less that there's 48 million poeple with out any sort of healthcare, mostly poor, blue collar workers, and even more frightening most of those are children...but it must be all the lazy parents who can do nothing but work to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads fault?

surely not the doctors who charge, literally for an arm and a leg, or the government officials who don't have to worry about anything but how they can make more money, for themselves...but those who are out here living and raising families.

insurance companies should make things more affordable, a single person pays maybe 50 dollars a month for healthcare...but a family of four would have to pay over 400 dollars a month, average rent in this area for a two bedroom is 600. interesting that we'd have to pay almost as much for medical care as the house we live in, and that would be insurance through my husband's place of employment.

i don't think doctors should work for free or that anyone and everyone should have free healthcare, while the government foots the bill, but people who are in power over those aspects of america should take into consideration that some people even with two incomes and no luxury items can't afford healthcare. it's back to fat cat government officials courting the money, rather than caring about the average americans who make up the majority of our nation.

they should consider income however, i'd be happy with a clinic that runs a slide scale, i don't need extravagent healthcare, i just don't want to go into debt because a child falls out of a tree; oh wait, i'm already in debt for one daughters broken arm, thank goodness autism is considered a disability or we couldn't afford to keep mia.

I hate to keep harping on my own situation, because I can't even imagine the burden of having children to consider. But I wish mine was considered a disability instead of a pre-existing condition. Even if I could afford my own health insurance, there's a 6-9 month waiting period before any of that could be covered anyway.

You know what pisses me off? I recently got a bill for the attending physician when I was in the hospital. Nearly $4,000. Did I ever meet Dr. Mantha Bala? No. He/she probably just scratched a signature on my chart and went on his/her merry way. Then why am I paying this asshole several thousand dollars? What did he/she do for me?

Plus I had to get on the phone and rip someone a new one for trying to charge me for my first spinal tap. Which they fucked up and were unable to perform.

You know, Jordyn. I just find it impossible to believe that people here are arguing against some sort of health care for the uninsured. I can't understand how someone in good conscience could be so "me"- oriented. They're so afraid of losing a few more dollars to a government program, that they're inventing every possible excuse as to why we shouldn't have it. The commies, the socialists, the niggers, the welfare-addicts, the lazy unemployed, the price of fucking rice in Malaysia. And frankly, it disgusts me. I know that they'll all find some nitpicky reason to argue with me and disagree. But I don't give a shit. Your situation.. my situation, and the situation of millions of others should not be discounted because some people choose to abuse the system. That's not fair.

Modern Industrial nations have socialized medicine... I wonder why not the US? Capatalism is great for competition but we pay an exorbitant amount of money for medical assistance. If the treatments are not affordable the quality is a moot point. In the four years i was stationed in Germany and had a German wife and german friends I didn't see any lack of quality based on a competion vaccum, however, I did see alot of preventative care that we in America rarely get due to cost. Even with a socialized health plan the US would still be one of the higher paying countries to our doctors. How to keey a level of professionalism without competition... Proficiency based pay. A base pay the way my Army paycheck has, with allowances for specialized skills. EXAMPLE: A soldier on active duty recieves an incentive pay of 150.00 extra each month for maintaining jump status in an airborne unit. A lung doctor could recieve a bonus monthly for being more specialized than a general practitioner. A doctor works in an HIV/AIDS clinic... Hazard pay would be apropriate. Health problems caught quickly can usually be treated/avoided with much better success than when caught later. People today with HMOs are having the problem the frog mentioned regarding poor quality control. I also believe that if the average doctor did not have to shell out 100,000 USD on med school (conservative figure) that they would not require as much compensation as they currently enjoy.

My sympathies do not go to the doctors that have to pay high amounts for med school. So did the doctors with WHO and other international programs. You don't see them driving a Lexus through the African plains.

I do agree on the military standpoint involving differing pay rates. That sounds good.

I miss having Champus, being covered under my dad. Damn adulthood.

Meg I told you before I feel for you and your situation, if there was something I could do to help I would do it in a heartbeat. But this nationalized healthcare thing isnt just a few extra bucks in taxes. Its 1000s of extra bucks in taxes a year. Canadians pay upwards of 50% of thier entire paycheck to taxes alone, most of that is thier healthcare system. And I dont have a "me" complex. I have a "Me and my own" complex. I am worried about getting me and my family to the future, not everyone else. I know this is cruel and cold hearted, but noone is fucking laying down for me to get a break niether. How many small businesses will go out of business because they have to pay extra 10,000s of dollars because of new taxes? The big corpotations will be fine, they usually provide healthcare aneay, but what about the rest of us who are trying to create something from nothing with hard work, and now we got an extra 10 grand to pay off every year?

We dont because we arent Eurotrash Socialists. the LAST thing we want to do is follow Europes lead, they'll be dead and overrun with 3rd worlders in 50 years.

It will not be thousands of extra bucks a year. I pay anywhere between 4 and 10 dollars a week in Medicare tax. No one's going to take $200 bucks a week out of your paycheck for health care. Which is what you're talking about if you think it'll be multiple thousands out of your pocket.

I'm not asking for a break. I'm asking for the basic right to not die because I don't have enough money to pay for the prevantative measures.

well come hitch me and ill pay for yours. speaking of which I just dropped 1500.00 on 2 saline drips for betty when she got food poisoning... god i love hospitals.

Its hard to argue when someone you care about has a valid reason to argue against you. And I hate to appear like I dont care about Wicked's situation (I hope she knows thats not true), but I have to agree with Billy. People who live in more socialized areas (like europe) pay ungodly amounts of taxes. Higher taxes means less spending, meaning everybody loses. I wish we could be sympathetic to every individual. I wish we could say that Wicked deserves the healthcare, because she's obviously working her ass off, whereas someone who is just a lazy fuck and wants to mooch doesn't deserve it, but we can't do that.

Our society rewards hard work. That is why our society thrives. Becoming a Doctor is an incredibly grueling task, if you ask me, they deserve a higher standard of living, because of the sacrifices they made to get where they are.

i'm canadian, quelle surprise. i just need to inject a little reality into your personal views. our medicare system is always in need of tinkering, nothing is perfect, but for the most part, it works just fine in my country.

i called my doc up at 110 a.m. for an app't. and saw her on the dot this aft. it's been the same whenever i've called her over the past two and a half years that i've lived in this town. every medical procedure i've ever needed has been a cake-walk. one of my family members just came through surgery for cancer and radiation - all in a timely and effective manner. another had laparoscopy surgery a week after seeing the doctor and having him diagnose a little sumfin, sumfin that needed to be taken out. it's been this way for everyone in my family, all my friends and associates. i know of no one who has suffered sub-standard care or been on an excessively long wait-list as a result of our medical system. some of our medical centres are actually world reknown.

you hear lots of sensationalizing about the wait-lists in some places but it's just that, sensationalizing for the sake of media or political propaganda. there are some problems in butt-fuck nowhere 'cause doctors don't want to go there but i don't see how that is a problem with universal medical care.

our own politicians aren't above screaming the "sky is falling" if they think it will get them votes. most of us respond to it accordingly - with our middle fingers. as for the "new" rabid american position on the evils of universal health-care - it was unheard of before the current administration started gearing up in the clinton years. previous to that, most americans who knew anything about our system were either approving or intelligently interested.

as for taxes, again, on a ratio of all taxes to income, our country is within percentage points of most american states. our standard of living is relatively the same. our doctors make shitloads of money - they just don't make millions. and if they do want to make millions they go to the states, which is fine with everyone. my own family is a predominately a medical family and has been for a long time - first in england and then here. my great uncles founded a major hospital in toronto and pioneered new autoclaving procedures. one of my aunties - a specialist - presided at my birth just for fun. my parents both just retired from the medical business. so i'm well qualified to know what i am talking about.

i have american clients in my line of work who are suffering with all kinds of problems because they can't afford medical treatment. this should offend your sense of human justice and decency rather than be met wtih the idea that the weak should always suffer and go down because they deserve it. that's the way monkeys think. and it is only ever a matter of time until its your turn to be weak.

when i first heard the new republican retoric about the evils of our health care system in canada i almost died laughing. i thought surely americans wouldn't be so stupid as to actually beilieve that. george bush was ranting away in one of the most uninformed speeches i've ever heard in my life. my american family started suddenly calling us and offering their help 'cause they didn't know it was sooooo bad here.

to my mind the conservative faction in the states deserves applause for not only selling you guys a line of bullshit about the horrors of universal health-care, they've actually got you fighting not to have it. but i'm not laughing anymore. i just feel sorry for you guys.

Yeah Bush invented the American hatred for socialism. Get a clue why dont you. I am glad you love paying out the ass for medical crap you only use once and a while (unless you live in a hospital, and you may well) But to me its a waste of money. Socialized medicine = medicine bought with stolen money. MY stolen money. If I work hard to earn a better standard of living than someone else, thats not something *I* should be punished for. I know you guys dont like that, some liberals think that anyone who achieves needs to pony up for those who dont. That6s called robbery AKA Socialism. *IF* I am making all the right decisions and I find myself with more moeny than everyone else, then I should be praised for it. Not taken advantage of. Healthcare isnt a RIGHT, its not in the constitution, theres nothing in there guarenteeing you the right to have a healthy life, thats sad, but thats the way it is.

god, you are such an emotional little twat. are you on the rag? first of all i did not say that bush invented american hatred of socialism. can't you read?

secondly, i don't pay out the ass for anything. i pay pretty much the same as you do for all things in general. i enjoy one of the richest standards of living in the free world and am grateful i live where i do pretty much 24/7.

universal heath care is embraced by pretty much the entire population here and is always in the top five concerns in any election year. if people felt that their money was being stolen they'd be up in arms. we vote for it time and time again - so it's not truly social medicine in the political sense of the word. this is a democracy after all and it's the result of democratic process. the fact that we not only vote to keep it year after year should indicate that no one feels ripped off.

and little boy, i can guarnatee yiou i make tons more money than you, so don't bother trying to sell me on the "i deserve to be rewarded for my hard work and you don't" crap. the difference is that i believe that when bad things happen to good people due to no fault of their own it is our human obligation to look out for them. we are so bloody rich in this country we can afford it. and you can too.

Wow, i recall you saying explicitly that we didnt start hating your free (taxed) healthcare until the current administration.. you did say something to that effect didnt you?

And from what I have read/heard/seen you guys pay unbearably more than we do.

As far as you trying to foat your cock around with your income, blah blah blah whatever internet toughguy. The fact of tha matter is that if *I* make good decisions I deserve a higher standard of living. Thats darwinism right there, the smart and strong go on to make more people while those who arent smart enough to make good decisions dont breed. Thats science. Science doesnt take into account the soft heart sissyism that goes along with most Socialists who seem to think that everyone is entitled to everyone elses property and money.

You are not entitled, make your own money and keep your fuckin hands outta my pockets. I make my money for me and my own, not so the "poor and downtrodden" can fucking take it. For those that work hard and have trouble, i feel bad for them, but I see no reason to sink my ship and join them. As for being a rich nation, thats horseshit. There is rich, poor and moderately wealthy individuals. Each group does what it can for itself. I have NO obligation to help anyone less fortunate than I am, unless its charity. I give to charity when I want to, forced charity is still theft.

That fact that SOME of you Canadians vote for the authorization of wealth redistribution and theft onto others who didnt, still makes it theft. Deal with it.

Oh by the way, last I checked the libs got tossed out of an incredibly liberal government up there by "evil conservatives" whos promises wer eto what? Thats right CUT TAXES. Guess where the cuts come from? A reduction in services. thats right.

I'll say it again, I dont give a fuck. Government involvement in ANYTHING that can be handled privately, be it anything from healthcare, to smoking bans, to seatbelt laws, is FUCKING DANGEROUS and leading us down a path to fewer personal freedoms and a more restrictive society.